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Old 08-13-2004, 09:33 AM   #61
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it's not the seven minutes issue that concerns me, it's his ignorance and and arrogance.
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Old 08-13-2004, 10:29 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by ThatGuy
True, he could not have accomplished much in those seven minutes, but a truly strong leader would not have sat there reading The Pet Goat for seven minutes. Can you think of any other presidency where that would be acceptable? Can you imagine if Bill Clinton had sat there for seven minutes? He would have been upbraided for it the next day, national unity be damned.
The book he was reading was Reading Mastery 2, which contains an exercise called "The Pet Goat." The title of the book is not very important in itself, but the invented title by Michael Moore of "My Pet Goat" makes it easier to ridicule Bush.

If Bill Clinton would have been President at that time, or John Kerry, or Stuart Smalley, or whoever, I still would have rallied behind them as an American and gone after those SOB's that did this to us.

The principal of the Elementary School, who was in the room at the time, praised Bush for his actions.

http://www.naplesnews.com/npdn/flori...985640,00.html

Like NB said, it should be a non-issue. But since it is an issue, Kerry said himself about 6 months ago, before the Democratic mascot Michael Moore made it an issue, he was in the Capital during 9/11 and for 45 minutes was "stunned" and no body knew what to do.

Since it is an issue, I will take 7 minutes over 45 any day.
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Old 08-13-2004, 11:16 AM   #63
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It's just another display of bad leadership really. Not that those 7 minutes would have changed much but a president should want to be on top of things. He should have excused himself and attended his duties, even if it's only for moral support to his aides or to satisfy his natural curiosity of wanting to know what the hell was going on. To me it conflicts with his carefully constructed image of a decisive leader and is more in line with the image of a man who has the newspaper read to him and is run by his administration rather than the other way around.

It's another display of his character and it ain't a pretty sight.
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Old 08-13-2004, 11:45 AM   #64
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Non-issue? Bush waiting 7 minutes on 9/11

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Unfortunately....that was not Bush's speech it was Clintons.....

and you proved my point for me.....Clinton's words are extremely similar to Bush's.

Which leads me to believe that they were both being fed the same intelligence information and their positions were not far from each others other than 9/11 changes the spectrum through which President Bush and others looked at the situation.
Oh Dread, you got me!

Seeing as how you didn't provide a link - which is so often the case when you post a quote - and I only read the portions you emboldened - I really don't care who said it.

You haven't shown me anything except your usual duplicity in your posting habits. Talk to me when you want to engage in serious debate.
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Old 08-13-2004, 11:48 AM   #65
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Ahem, 17 Sarin Shells, Cyclosarin and Mustard Gas as well as the remnants of a nuclear program. I think you should say no stockpiles of WMD have been found. But technically we have found WMD and Weapons Programs.
The Bush Administration rests its case.
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Old 08-13-2004, 12:08 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by swizzlestick

The book he was reading was Reading Mastery 2, which contains an exercise called "The Pet Goat." The title of the book is not very important in itself, but the invented title by Michael Moore of "My Pet Goat" makes it easier to ridicule Bush.
Moore said that Bush spent the seven minutes reading "My Pet Goat." True, he did get the title of the story wrong but he never said it was the titile of the book. Bush did spend those seven minutes reading "The Pet Goat." Whether or not it makes it easy to ridicule him or not, that is a factual statement.

Quote:
If Bill Clinton would have been President at that time, or John Kerry, or Stuart Smalley, or whoever, I still would have rallied behind them as an American and gone after those SOB's that did this to us.
Well I'm glad. However I can picture Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Coulter, Savage, not to mention several members of the Republican party and the editorial pages of The Washington Times and The Wall Street Journal blasting him about it. If you would have acted differently then I commend you.

Quote:
The principal of the Elementary School, who was in the room at the time, praised Bush for his actions.

http://www.naplesnews.com/npdn/flori...985640,00.html
This principle once again presents the false dichotomy that Bush could have either stood up and run out of the room, scaring the children, or sat there and done nothing. Is there not a third option where Bush politely excuses himself by saying that he is sorry, but he has something very important to do and quietly and calmly leaves the room?

Quote:
Like NB said, it should be a non-issue. But since it is an issue, Kerry said himself about 6 months ago, before the Democratic mascot Michael Moore made it an issue, he was in the Capital during 9/11 and for 45 minutes was "stunned" and no body knew what to do.

Since it is an issue, I will take 7 minutes over 45 any day.
On 9/11 a senator from Massachusetts had the same power to do anything as I did in my living room. To compare Kerry and Bush and their respective jobs on that day is silly. Kerry was not the commander in chief, and he did not have the authority to order hijacked planes shot down, among other things.
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Old 08-13-2004, 12:29 PM   #67
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The 7 minutes in itself is not really too important. Bush could've excused himself
and left the classroom,
What could he have done then? Just be stunned for 7 minutes in some other area?
I'm sure the CIA, FBI, and all the other depts. with alphabets were scrambling to find out what the heck was going on.
Apperance-wise, it was not very reassuring for Bush to just sit there.
The real issue to me is Bush
halucinating that he watched the event
on television.
There wasn't a tv set turned on at the time, or even near the classroom!
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Old 08-13-2004, 12:40 PM   #68
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That's not true, actually. Secret Service agents had set up a TV in a nearby classroom and were able to watch the second plane hit the second tower. There's a photo of Bush on the phone while a TV over his shoulder plays a rebroadcast of the second tower getting hit.

What's troubling is that less than three months after the attacks Bush claimed to have seen the first plane hit the first tower just before he went into the classroom. That footage was not aired until the next day, so there's no way that could have happened. And he didn't just tell the story once, he told it twice.

Quote:
December 4, 2001:

I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower - the TV was obviously on. And I used to fly, myself, and I said, well, there's one terrible pilot. I said, it must have been a horrible accident. But I was whisked off there, I didn't have much time to think about it.
Source
Quote:
January 5, 2002:

Well, I was sitting in a schoolhouse in Florida ... and my Chief of Staff well, first of all, when we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly into the first building. There was a TV set on. And you know, I thought it was pilot error and I was amazed that anybody could make such a terrible mistake. And something was wrong with the plane...
Source
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Old 08-13-2004, 12:50 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by ThatGuy


What's troubling is that less than three months after the attacks Bush claimed to have seen the first plane hit the first tower just before he went into the classroom. That footage was not aired until the next day, so there's no way that could have happened. And he didn't just tell the story once, he told it twice.



Yep.This makes no sense at all.
Why hasn't anyone asked Bush to clarify and explain how he can watch an event, before it happens?
It could simply be another form of
"Bushism's" Saying it twice though?
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Old 08-13-2004, 12:52 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by RockNRollDawgie
Just be stunned for 7 minutes in some other area? I'm sure the CIA, FBI, and all the other depts. with alphabets were scrambling to find out what the heck was going on.
He could have been trying to find out more or to see if he could do something, after all, he's the one that's supposed to be running the country. They were in a crisis situation, the US was under attack and the president chose not to get immediately involved. This is not a display of good leadership.
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Old 08-13-2004, 01:37 PM   #71
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Non-issue? Bush waiting 7 minutes on 9/11

Quote:
Originally posted by pub crawler


Oh Dread, you got me!

Seeing as how you didn't provide a link - which is so often the case when you post a quote - and I only read the portions you emboldened - I really don't care who said it.

You haven't shown me anything except your usual duplicity in your posting habits. Talk to me when you want to engage in serious debate.
1) I am usually pretty good at posting links. In this case I left it out purposefully.
2) You should care who said it, because as the remarks show, this administration was not far off in its beliefs about Iraq. You made a statement, with not a fact to back it up about the invasion of Iraq. This was my response to it and it indeed proves my point.
3) I am still laughing my ass off at your duplicitous comment. Instead of making it personal, which you indeed have publicly, you have not demonstrated a single bit of proof anywhere in this thread to back up your comments about the war.
4) Interestingly enough, I have engaged in many a serious debate around here for two years now. In that time, I have never backed down from a debate with you. I hate debating with unarmed people though who have to resort to making it personal. Wise words from my college roomate "Don't shoot your mouth off unless your brain is loaded." Call me when yours is.

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Old 08-13-2004, 02:10 PM   #72
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Non-issue? Bush waiting 7 minutes on 9/11

Quote:
Originally posted by pub crawler
Finally, I've written it a number of times on this forum (and I won't bother quoting from whitehouse.gov again): many of us who oppose this invasion heard Bush addressing the nation and the world prior to and after the invasion and we very clearly heard Bush linking Sadaam Hussein and Iraq to the events of 911.
Are you saying that there is no link between Iraq and Al-Qaeda? Are you saying Iraq was involved in terrorist activities?

See I hear the President declare war against terrorism.
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Old 08-13-2004, 02:10 PM   #73
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Second guessing 3 years later
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Old 08-13-2004, 02:12 PM   #74
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Second guessing 3 years later
No kidding....

You know its bad in FYM when a thread on AIDS gets less posts and views than this.
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Old 08-13-2004, 02:18 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by ThatGuy


Moore said that Bush spent the seven minutes reading "My Pet Goat." True, he did get the title of the story wrong but he never said it was the titile of the book.

Your right, I wouldn't know if Moore said it was the title of the book. I didn't see the movie. I tend to stay away from propaganda. But I did find this link that says he did call it that.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/conten...ta_talk_radosh

Quote:

Bush did spend those seven minutes reading "The Pet Goat." Whether or not it makes it easy to ridicule him or not, that is a factual statement.
Whether or not it makes it easy to ridicule him? Come on, ThatGuy. It was stated earlier on this board that it "set the tone of the film". Why else is the title important?

Yes, he sat there for 7 minutes. The man is a human being. Think back at what you did when you first heard the news. I was stunned. I literally couldn't talk. No one in my office could talk. This was Pearl Harbor times 10! Before 9/11 nothing like this had ever happened with the exception of Pearl Harbor. There was no standard protocol on how to properly evacuate the President in the case Terrorists slam our own planes into the World Trade Center. I would assume the Secret Service in those 7 minutes were determining a safe exit for the President. By the time Air Force One was at 30,000 ft, they still had no idea on where they were going.


Quote:
Well I'm glad. However I can picture Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Coulter, Savage, not to mention several members of the Republican party and the editorial pages of The Washington Times and The Wall Street Journal blasting him about it.
Really? For one Savage and O'Reilly are Independents. And secondly you are once again assuming something that we will never know. I can't can't speak for Limbaugh, Hannity and Coulter or any other American, but I seriously doubt during that time in America, there would be criticism. And remember you are the one attacking the President for sitting there for 7 minutes, not Limbaugh, Hannity, or Coulter.

Quote:
If you would have acted differently then I commend you.
Thank you.


Quote:
This principle once again presents the false dichotomy that Bush could have either stood up and run out of the room, scaring the children, or sat there and done nothing. Is there not a third option where Bush politely excuses himself by saying that he is sorry, but he has something very important to do and quietly and calmly leaves the room?
I don't know this. I wasn't there. There probably could have been 4 or 5 different options. But I will take the word of the "Principal" who was there over this assumption that is clearly politically motivated.

Quote:
On 9/11 a senator from Massachusetts had the same power to do anything as I did in my living room. To compare Kerry and Bush and their respective jobs on that day is silly.
No it is not silly. Kerry made it an issue last week when he said "I would have sat up out of my chair...Blah blah blah". We are trying to compare the 2 men who are running for President. Kerry wasn't the only Senator that stood in the Capitol for 45 minutes. Republicans and Democrats alike stood there stunned...as they should have.

Quote:
Kerry was not the commander in chief, and he did not have the authority to order hijacked planes shot down, among other things.
Thank God for that. If Kerry were Commander-In-Chief, Saddam Hussein would still be in power, still raping and pillaging women, still killing hundreds of thousands of people, still acquiring WMD's, and God forbid giving them to terrorists like Usama Bin Laden, Muqtada al-Sadr, or Abu Maseb al Zarqwari to use against Israel, Europe, or the US.
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