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Old 02-11-2005, 10:03 PM   #1
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Non-Belief In Marriage

I don't know if I'm ever going to get married, not because I don't know if I'll meet the right person, but because I'm losing faith in the institution of marriage and I don't know if I want to take part in it. The way I feel right now, it would be just fine with me if I met the right girl, and we committed to each other forever, and never got married. The whole 'common-law' thing. There are just a lot of negative statistics concerning marriage right now, and there are the obvious controversial issues surrounding marriage to add to that, and I just am getting bad vibes about the whole idea of marriage at this point in my life. I also feel that a lot of people are rushing into marriage these days(I consider even one year to be rushing), just because they feel like if they're in love, they have to.

Anyway, I'm just interested to know what you think about this issue, about the importance of marriage, about whether or not there's anything wrong with a commited non-marital relationship(common law), about whether or not anyone else feels the way I feel about marriage, and any other thoughts you might have. Thanks in advance.
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Old 02-11-2005, 10:21 PM   #2
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I'll speak from the legal end. In terms of "common law" marriages, you would be affected by the rash of anti-gay marriage amendments in states. Their language is so ambiguous as to, essentially, void common-law marriages even between heterosexuals.

As such, you would be as legally vulnerable as a same-sex couple, such as property inheritance rights, hospital visitation rights, Social Security and pension survivorship, and extension of health benefits to your significant other, along with 1000+ other federal benefits.

I say, to you, to forget the controversy and do what your heart says. Having personally been berated by religious fanatics of all stripes here and elsewhere, you just have to learn to ignore them after a while. If you want to get married, then do it, and don't let anyone or any religion dictate as to how you do it. You could choose to just have a legal official marry you in a courthouse. You could have a traditional church service. You could invent your own service and make it as conventional or unconventional as you want--and then finish by signing the marriage license.

Good luck.

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Old 02-11-2005, 10:42 PM   #3
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i think an authentic marriage motivated by geunine commitment is a good thing. married people are healthier, and i think marriage creates a group of stable people with a vested interest in social stability, which can only benefit us all.

most of the problems with marriage, i think, are due to media-induced expectations. starting with "the best day of your whole life" all the way to some gauzy idealized image of blond children swinging beneath a willow tree. life ain't like that, no matter what 7th Heaven tells you.

i see this most in my female friends. i'm now in my early late 20's, and i can see and even hear a marriage obsession growing in the hearts and minds of my female friends. it's quite interesting to observe. there's such an expectation tossed upon women to get married, to have a great wedding, to be that beautiful bride, that the day itself becomes the goal, and not the success of the following 50+ years (should one be so lucky).

i think marriage is tough. monogamy is hard. it's hard to wake up to the same person day after day after day (or so i'm told). but i think it can be worth it, for the stability it provides and for the physical and emotional strength it can provide for those lucky people. i also think that romance fades, that lust fades, and that something different but far more adult takes over: true, real friendship between two lifelong partners.

let's celebate that, not vomit-inducing expectations of a Nick-and-Jessica-style wedding.
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Old 02-11-2005, 11:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
ii also think that romance fades, that lust fades, and that something different but far more adult takes over: true, real friendship between two lifelong partners.
No it does not fade!!!!!

There is a secret......

If your court the person you love each and every day.....instead of thinking your courtship ended when you get married....the romance does not fade.
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Old 02-12-2005, 03:07 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i see this most in my female friends. i'm now in my early late 20's, and i can see and even hear a marriage obsession growing in the hearts and minds of my female friends. it's quite interesting to observe. there's such an expectation tossed upon women to get married, to have a great wedding, to be that beautiful bride, that the day itself becomes the goal, and not the success of the following 50+ years (should one be so lucky).
Heh, I'm 20, and while I would like to get married someday, I don't have any desire to do it right now. And I have on occasion thought about the wedding, but I've not been one of the girls who sits around for days on end imagining the big day and what all I'd want, and I've never been into the whole lavish, ridiculously expensive deal. No, I just want to wait a while, and hopefully the right person will one day come along some years down the road.

I think I need to stop watching "Unsolved Mysteries" and shows along that line so much, 'cause there have been so many cases of husbands killing their wives, or being abusive to them, or things along that line, on there, and that is the one thing that makes me rather uneasy about getting married. I'm hoping that when I do eventually get married, my trust in my husband will not have been in vain, that he'll never wind up being a jerk along the lines of these guys I see on those shows.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i think marriage is tough. monogamy is hard. it's hard to wake up to the same person day after day after day (or so i'm told). but i think it can be worth it, for the stability it provides and for the physical and emotional strength it can provide for those lucky people. i also think that romance fades, that lust fades, and that something different but far more adult takes over: true, real friendship between two lifelong partners.
I agree wholeheartedly with the first part of your post, but I'm not so sure I agree with that last sentence, 'cause I've heard stories of couples who've been together for 50, 60 years and are still madly in love, how people can see they're still madly in love when they're together and all that.

This is going to sound weird, but you know that one commercial for that whole "A diamond is forever" thing where the younger couple is walking down a sidewalk and they pass an older couple who've been together for a long time? I just hope that I'll be like that older couple, still happily married to, and madly in love with, the same man that I fell in love with back when I was young. I don't want to be somebody who gets married multiple times-that's just never seemed appealing to me (I might marry a second time if the conditions warranted it-like if I'd left some jerk of a husband and found a guy who treated me much better or something like that. But no third, fourth, fifth times for me).

And as for the whole thing about various forms of marriage and things along that line...personally, my feelings are that as long as the couple are both consenting to the relationship, and they're both truly in love with each other, I don't care one iota how they choose to live together, be it a common law relationship or a marriage done in a church with all that stuff...whatever. As long as the couple's happy together, that's all that I feel is truly important. Nothing else matters.

Angela
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Old 02-12-2005, 03:49 AM   #6
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namkcuR, you'd be avoiding marriage for the wrong reasons. There is a whole lot of truth in what you say, regarding statistics and societal changes, views etc in relation to marriage in general, as a topic. But you're contemplating yours. One which hasn't happened. One which might not ever happen, for whatever reason. We never know tomorrow. The number of couples who's failures make up what you were talking about do not, and never will have, anything to do with you and a potential Mrs Ruckman having a successful or easy going marriage, or a violent one, or an abusive one, or one which ends after a few years, or one which remains as true an happy as the day you tie the knot - whichever it ends up. There is never any knowing how you and another person will be in marriage. Marriages tend to be rather organic anyway. They grow and evolve and things change. We change within them. Sometimes the marriage is allowed to grow and expand as it needs, sometimes it is not. Sometimes they work. Sometimes they do not. NOthing someone has said - regardless of how true - can be an indication for you, nor should it shape what you think is right for you. I feel that is not honest. This sounds strange in a way dictating what is the right thing to do, when it is how you feel. But the whole problem is these things you mention aren't about you and how you feel. You agree with them, as many people do, but you're using it to explain why you think marriage for you is not a good idea when you're not a part of what these things are talking about.

Common law marriage or union I reckon is just as valid and in some cases it suits people more. Especially if either or both parties in the marriage are of the thought 'you wake up next to me because you choose to every morning, and you come home in the evenings to me because you choose to'. Some people like the idea of every day being a new affirmation and promise to stay together which marriage can sometimes let us to lose sight of. It's not uncommon to see people stay married because they feel obligated or feel they can't get out or it's just easier and so on.
But then you get those who dont like this because they want/need the whole 'promise of forever' bit. We dont need marriage to promise forever to someone. And anyone is able to promise forever. We mean it when we say it, but things change. It ends up not being forever. Then we question not only ourselves and ask if we've failed, but we question whether marriage itself is worthy when we are so able to fail. We need to stop looking for someone or something to blame. We need to stop asking if people get married too young/too unprepared/too unwilling/too anything. There is no rule for our own lives and our own personal private marriages. It might last forever, it might not. They're our own and will only ever have our own rules or boundaries or successes or failures.
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Old 02-12-2005, 05:16 AM   #7
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I'm very cynical about marriage-my parents' marriage was/is terrible, and I have a brother headed for his second divorce. I don't judge people who are divorced, not at all. But I certainly admire people who can have a successful and happy marriage. I think it takes a lot of work, and it's harsh reality sometimes, not a fantasy world that some people want to make it.
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Old 02-12-2005, 06:09 AM   #8
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I have two divorced siblings, but another one just got married. Personally, I haven't found the right guy. My last relationship was a disaster. The guy was a drunk and abusive hole who was being really pushy about marriage, even telling me to go with him to pick out a ring. I knew this wasn't the way to do it so I broke off the relationship. Naturally he acted like a real hole about the whole thing. So while I understand why one might be a bit apprehensive about marriage there are marriages that work. My parents have been married since 1947. When my sister recently got married, her now-husband gave her a nice ring, very low-key and not flashy, the kind of ring she prefers as she is not into anything flashy or expensve and not that he can afford it anyway. They married in a courtroom, but plan a ceremony for the spring. This is mainly why I'm going to Turkey next year, not this year, spring is the best time to go to Turkey and I'd have a conflict and two trips this year would be both too tiring and too expensive anyway. My point is that love never went away, it's still out there, you just can't rush it.
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Old 02-12-2005, 06:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
I have two divorced siblings, but another one just got married. Personally, I haven't found the right guy. My last relationship was a disaster. The guy was a drunk and abusive hole who was being really pushy about marriage, even telling me to go with him to pick out a ring. I knew this wasn't the way to do it so I broke off the relationship. Naturally he acted like a real hole about the whole thing.
. Sorry to hear that-good for you for getting away from him.

Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
there are marriages that work. My parents have been married since 1947.
That's really cool. My parents have been married 27 years. It was rather strange for me when I was in school, 'cause I was one of very few kids whose parents weren't divorced, but I've always been rather happy about the fact that my parents have been married for so long.

Angela
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Old 02-12-2005, 11:59 AM   #10
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Re: Non-Belief In Marriage

Quote:
Originally posted by namkcuR
I don't know if I'm ever going to get married, not because I don't know if I'll meet the right person, but because I'm losing faith in the institution of marriage and I don't know if I want to take part in it. The way I feel right now, it would be just fine with me if I met the right girl, and we committed to each other forever, and never got married. The whole 'common-law' thing.
In terms of the personal relationship, what would you say is the difference between the "institution" of marriage and the "common-law" version?
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Old 02-12-2005, 02:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
namkcuR, you'd be avoiding marriage for the wrong reasons. There is a whole lot of truth in what you say, regarding statistics and societal changes, views etc in relation to marriage in general, as a topic. But you're contemplating yours. One which hasn't happened. One which might not ever happen, for whatever reason. We never know tomorrow. The number of couples who's failures make up what you were talking about do not, and never will have, anything to do with you and a potential Mrs Ruckman having a successful or easy going marriage, or a violent one, or an abusive one, or one which ends after a few years, or one which remains as true an happy as the day you tie the knot - whichever it ends up. There is never any knowing how you and another person will be in marriage. Marriages tend to be rather organic anyway. They grow and evolve and things change. We change within them. Sometimes the marriage is allowed to grow and expand as it needs, sometimes it is not. Sometimes they work. Sometimes they do not. NOthing someone has said - regardless of how true - can be an indication for you, nor should it shape what you think is right for you. I feel that is not honest. This sounds strange in a way dictating what is the right thing to do, when it is how you feel. But the whole problem is these things you mention aren't about you and how you feel. You agree with them, as many people do, but you're using it to explain why you think marriage for you is not a good idea when you're not a part of what these things are talking about.

Common law marriage or union I reckon is just as valid and in some cases it suits people more. Especially if either or both parties in the marriage are of the thought 'you wake up next to me because you choose to every morning, and you come home in the evenings to me because you choose to'. Some people like the idea of every day being a new affirmation and promise to stay together which marriage can sometimes let us to lose sight of. It's not uncommon to see people stay married because they feel obligated or feel they can't get out or it's just easier and so on.
But then you get those who dont like this because they want/need the whole 'promise of forever' bit. We dont need marriage to promise forever to someone. And anyone is able to promise forever. We mean it when we say it, but things change. It ends up not being forever. Then we question not only ourselves and ask if we've failed, but we question whether marriage itself is worthy when we are so able to fail. We need to stop looking for someone or something to blame. We need to stop asking if people get married too young/too unprepared/too unwilling/too anything. There is no rule for our own lives and our own personal private marriages. It might last forever, it might not. They're our own and will only ever have our own rules or boundaries or successes or failures.
Thanks for the advice.

If you don't mind my asking, how do you know my last name?
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Old 02-12-2005, 02:29 PM   #12
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I think the most important aspect of any relationship is the love you feel for one another and how well each of you get along together. Marriage is not that important if you truly love someone.
Also, you dont have to be married to be committed to a relationship or another person.
On the other hand, if you want kids, I think it is better to be married.
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Old 02-12-2005, 04:48 PM   #13
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I believe in it but may never be able to.

Thanks George.
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Old 02-12-2005, 05:17 PM   #14
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I don't think there's anything wrong with non-marital relationship if people feel that that's what suits them. For my own part, if I ever find a right person, I would want to get married (and I confess to wanting to have even a little bit of lavishness about the ceremony, ). I do believe that marriages can work, even though my own parents divorced after 20 years together and were deeply unhappy in the last 7-10 years of it.

I agree that many problems with marriages seem to happen because of the unrealistic expectations, and the pressure people put on themselves or have it put on by their families, community, etc. Especially if the community has pretty conservative views on marriage and a pitying, poor-thing-nobody-wants-her attitude to women who stay single well beyond 20s.
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Old 02-12-2005, 05:28 PM   #15
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I believe that there is a special someone out there. I sure haven't met him yet. I am in my middle 30's and i know people in their 40's who have never been married. It is really difficult these days to meet a good person. It seems that every guy want's to get laid and if I don't want to , they just disappear. What are men looking for these days? Just sex? I knew this one guy, we were slightly friends and he asked for my number. I said to him just as friends. So he calls me and tells he would like to get together. Well, I told him I liked him as a friend and he said to me, " well to be honest I was hoping we could hook up"? I said to him no and not in that way. I asked him if that was the only thing he wanted and he said " Yes". He never called me again. Well, thank God I know the truth sooner than later. So, I love men but I am so confused on the whole relationship's period. I do dream about that day but I don't obsess about it. I beleive in marriage and to me that is a true commitment. you are still so young, what you want at 27 or so, is not the same as your late 30's. Relax and enjoy being young and single.
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