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Old 03-31-2005, 03:09 AM   #76
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Hell we can probably just start sticking people on charts to make the point

Here we have a 2D liberty chart, now if we were to take Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin and their respective political ideologies they would wind up in the Authoritarian Corner right near eachother, they are each statists, low indexes for both economic and personal liberty. It is this totalitarian nature of the regimes that makes them so similar. The hard left and hard right are both statist ideologies that extinguish individual liberty under the blanket of the state ~ inseperable. The issue then becomes what is the nature of this system and where does it derive it's inspiration. I think that we can agree that both systems depend on having a pacified population and a powerful government with a strong control of or from the nations industry. Is a state controlled industry is pretty much identical to an industry that has been amalgamated into the state.

I would place Teta in the bottom left of the moderate camp. I have done a few of the quizes for these and I consistently got up in the libertarian camp towards the right.

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Old 03-31-2005, 07:22 AM   #77
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you makes some interestings points, and by all means i never intended to imply that you personally attack people as nazis or communists. although, if you want to call me a communist you can. i don't mind.

the whole concept of the "third way" is pretty interesting. i've never really heard of that before. and i agree that totalitarian "communism" (i cringe at having to call it such) and fascism have much in common. they are more or less sisters, that is something i was attempting to point out.

my real problem here is that you insist that the "far left" must be a totalitarian dictatorship while the "far right" must be a liberatarian democracy, perhaps you acknowledge otherwise but not to my knowledge. i really don't think that's the case. also, the far left regimes today aren't communist in the least, at least not by marxian standards. cuba is nothing more than a european social democracy on steroids while places like DPRK are simply totalitarian cluster fucks. china these days is just about one of the most authoritarian capitalist countries you can find - pumping out tvs and radio while workers get paid pennies, building starbucks and mcdonalds on every corner, building their own vast military industrial complex, all while maintaining strict control of society.

here, let me give you a brief check list of characteristics of the far left. now, this will be more or less entirely marxian, in that he is the one i am most familiar with, but i think you'll agree that marx is considered one of the big wigs of radical leftism.

- revolution develops in highly advanced capitalist society
- revolution by massive popular/workers' movement
- dissolution of the state apparatus
- direct, workers' democracy
- highly organized and democratic labor movement
- egalitarian socioeconomic model and subsequent reconstruction of the "base" and its "superstructure"
- emphasis on internationalism
- anti-nationalism
- anti-racism

there's a quick list. you won't find a single state or society that conforms. no "far left" society exists, at least in marxian terms. i suppose you can still argue that the countries that do exist that are labeled communist are a part of the far left, but i think you'd be making a mistake. perhaps they are all a part of this "third way," but at the very least they are not marxist.

hopefully this makes sense, i know i tend to wander aimlessly through topics and ideas.

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Old 03-31-2005, 07:54 AM   #78
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
And in consideration towards the radical left I find that the anti-Israel attitudes and sympathy towards the goals of Islamist groups among a few in the radical left is one reason that I abhor what they stand for. When you have a "progressive" defending the Taliban as a legitimate government something is seriously fucked up. Some support the "resistance" in Iraq ~ even when those groups are fanatical Islamists.
i wanted to point out that i agree with you here.

while i am not exactly pro-israel, i despise blowing up discos and markets just as much as i despise shooting children throwing rocks. treachery lies on both sides of the fence there. and i will i am not in favor of us imperialism, the taliban did suck a big one.

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