No punishment for the only 9/11 member who had to face a trial? - U2 Feedback

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Old 07-15-2003, 08:07 AM   #1
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No punishment for the only 9/11 member who had to face a trial?

So it seems that the government can't even declassify some papers around 9/11 which would be enough so that Zacarias Moussaouis trial dosn't have to be dismissed?

I'm a little confused

from NY Times

Quote:
In court papers, the department said Attorney General John Ashcroft had determined that testimony from the accused terrorist Ramzi bin al-Shibh, a confessed participant in the Sept. 11 attacks, "would necessarily result in the unauthorized disclosure of classified information" and that "such a scenario is unacceptable to the government."

...

Bush administration officials have said for months that if Mr. Moussaoui's indictment were dismissed, his prosecution would almost certainly be moved to a military tribunal, where Mr. Moussaoui would be expected to have fewer rights to gather testimony from witnesses like Mr. bin al-Shibh.

...
Mr. Moussaoui, a French citizen who was arrested in Minnesota on immigration charges in August 2001, has acknowledged that he is a member of Al Qaeda and is loyal to Osama bin Laden. But he has insisted that he had nothing to do with the Sept. 11 attacks, a claim he has repeatedly made in handwritten court motions. Mr. Moussaoui, who is trying to act as his own lawyer, has said that Mr. bin al-Shibh has information that could prove his innocence.
So i'm affraid we need the tribunal to ensure that the Court says guilty, no matter what. So that the public dosn't have to care about details like faked documents who proof his guilt.

I don't see big chances to ensure that Military Tribunals don't abuse their power

Klaus
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Old 07-15-2003, 04:27 PM   #2
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So let me get this straight.
- A person who is accused of helping the 11 September terrorist attack is currently facing trial.
- He wants to call a witness to prove his (partly) innocence.
- The government refuses, thereby obstructing the ways of justice.
- As a result the judge will have no other option than the dismiss the trial (or at least on the account of participating in the 9/11 attacks).
- The government then has the possibility to bring him to military court, so he has to face 'justice' again, only this time with fewer rights allowed to him.

Is such a distortion of the judical system allowed?!?

For everyone's sake, allow him the witness. If he has nothing substantial (and true) to add the prosecution can slice his testimony to pieces. Since Moussaoui is probably facing a jury that's a bit biased against him (to use an understatement) I don't think the testimony would matter that much.

Marty
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Old 07-15-2003, 06:18 PM   #3
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It will go to a military tribunal, I'm sure. The reason they don't want a witness has less to do with "national security" as much as they don't want to take a chance that the witness would actually have an alibi for a self-professed Al-Qaeda member.

Franklin Roosevelt is credited with saying that he created military tribunals in World War II to ensure a guilty verdict, and I doubt much has changed in that reasoning seventy years later.

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Old 07-15-2003, 07:59 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
It will go to a military tribunal, I'm sure. The reason they don't want a witness has less to do with "national security" as much as they don't want to take a chance that the witness would actually have an alibi for a self-professed Al-Qaeda member.

Franklin Roosevelt is credited with saying that he created military tribunals in World War II to ensure a guilty verdict, and I doubt much has changed in that reasoning seventy years later.

Melon
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Old 07-16-2003, 09:19 AM   #5
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So it's time for show trials
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Old 10-03-2003, 04:09 AM   #6
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Hello,

Sorry for digging up an old thread, but the next article is a follow-up on the NYT report of a few months ago.
From the Boston Globe:
http://www.boston.com/dailynews/275/...h_sente:.shtml

Quote:
Federal judge bars death sentence and Sept. 11 evidence in Moussaoui case
ALEXANDRIA, Va. (AP) A federal judge dealt a severe setback to the only U.S. prosecution arising from the Sept. 11 attacks, ruling Thursday that the government cannot seek to execute Zacarias Moussaoui or introduce trial evidence linking the al-Qaida loyalist to the suicide hijackings.

U.S. District Judge Leonie Brinkema punished the government for refusing court orders to make three high-level al-Qaida prisoners available to Moussaoui.

She forced the Bush administration to choose between taking the dispute over witnesses to a federal appeals court or moving Moussaoui's case from a civilian court to a military tribunal.

Prosecutors rejected the third option of presenting the government's case without Sept. 11 testimony, even though the indictment alleges that Moussaoui was part of a much broader al-Qaida conspiracy against the United States.

[...]

The government could move the case to a military tribunal, where greater secrecy could be allowed, but Brinkema said she ruled out dismissing the case in order to keep the trial in ''an open and public forum.''

[...]

In barring the Sept. 11 evidence, Brinkema said the government could still obtain a conviction by proving that Moussaoui was part of al-Qaida conspiracy that did not involve the 2001 attacks.

The government had a much heavier burden to show that Moussaoui is eligible for the death penalty, the judge said, because prosecutors must show that his actions resulted in murder.

If Moussaoui is shown to be a minor player in al-Qaida's war against the United States, he couldn't lawfully ''be sentenced to death for the actions of other members of al-Qaida who perpetrated the Sept. 11 attacks,'' the judge said.
While the suspect cannot be executed, the article does say he can still face a lifetime imprisonment.
I still have the feeling it would've been better when the government did allow the suspect to question the two witnesses. As I said before, if the witnesses have nothing substantial to add to his defense the prosecution can slice him to pieces. Oh well, apparently not...

C ya!

Marty

P.S. The judge is called Leonie Brinkema, that's a very Dutch name.
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Old 10-05-2003, 01:18 AM   #7
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This guy was labled "The twentieth highjacker".

More and more it seems like this is one more misrepresentation by Ashcroft and the Administration.
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