"No Hablo Espanol and NEVER WILL!" - Page 5 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-15-2005, 10:54 PM   #61
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Rono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 6,163
Local Time: 03:27 PM
I think everyone should speak 2 or more langauges.and maybe ( illigal ) immigrants would be more stimulated to learn english if the would accepted as usefull people and valeuble citizens instead of second grade people who can be used as cheap labour.
__________________

__________________
Rono is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 06:22 AM   #62
pax
ONE
love, blood, life
 
pax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 10:27 AM
One thing that annoys me about this debate is that I've heard people complain, for example, if they go into McDonald's or what have you and the clerk maybe speaks not much English, or heavily accented English. And this person might grumble that they had a hard time understanding the clerk or the cabdriver or whatever. But these are the same people who would complain if this individual speaking not-so-great English wasn't out working.

The way I see it, it's better to have the Pakistani immigrant out driving the cab and constantly hearing and speaking English, and in the meantime, put up with the accent or the imperfect grammar. There is a learning curve with language, and the older people are, the harder it is.

That said, obviously, for their own good as well as convenience and safety reasons, immigrants should make every attempt to speak and understand the local language, just as if I immigrated to France or Russia or [insert other-language-speaking country here], I would find it a reasonable expectation that I should learn the language.
__________________

__________________
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time


Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 06:25 AM   #63
Acrobat
 
MandyMarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Under a Carolina blue sky
Posts: 355
Local Time: 10:27 AM
I live in an area heavily populated by immigrants. I don't so much mind them being here, but I do wish they were required to learn English. In these parts, it is getting harder and harder to find a decent job if you don't speak Spanish. Spanish is no longer an elective, but is now required in our schools. I've noticed a lot of teachers starting to complain because they are getting so many children in their classes who do not know any English, and it creates such a barrier. I have nothing but respect for those immigrants who are learning English. There is a night school down the road where they work their ass off to learn English. I'll be starting college in the fall to get my teaching degree, and of course, Spanish will be a part of my studies, I won't be able to get a job around here without it.
__________________
MandyMarie is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 08:31 AM   #64
Refugee
 
Muggsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: I live in colombia, with a box of watercolors and butterflies in my tummy
Posts: 2,033
Local Time: 09:27 AM
English teaching in schools is mandatory here, even in the smallest towns, since kindergarden ... we have to learn english to get to college and get professional degrees. Even if you're not planning to search a new life out of here you gotta learn to speak english if you want a good job and deal with simple things like internet or electronic devices.

maybe, if Spain (or latin america) were the most powerful country in the world you would be the ones forced to learn a foreign language. We can't deny the cultural influence of the USA over the world and the effects of globalization. But i think it is ironic when people from other countries can build a life there while the americans only buy in "we speak english" stores when they travel. It is easy to demand the others to learn your own lenguage when you're in a priviledged position and you don't have to change to get a better life.

I do think that if you travel to another country you have to learn their language, but you can't be rude and arrogant with the foreign people. and, for the other hand, we are not talking about a bunch of spanic inmigrants who can't speak english, we are talking about big groups with a cultural and economical force that is getting bigger and bigger and you can't ignore that. both sides have to understand their relationship to aport positive things to each other.
__________________
Muggsy is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 09:56 AM   #65
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,270
Local Time: 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Seabird
Would you-could you do this for every immigrant? In many places there are immigrants who bring literally dozens of languages into the mix. Is it fair to the French, German, Russian, Vietnamese, Chinese, Indians, etc. to only coddle the Spanish speakers?
No, and I wouldn't expect us to just ignore the people from the other countries you mentioned.

But to solve the problem of learning multiple languages, I guess I'd say it all depends on what type of immigrants you come in contact with most often in your lifetime. I grew up in towns that had a big Mexican population-that was about the only foreign group of people in town, so I learned a bit of Spanish. If I ever wind up living in an area where I encounter another group of people with a different language, I'll try and learn the basics of that one.

I think Rono has an interesting point-trying to understand the language of the incoming people makes them feel like we're willing to try and understand their culture, and that'd probably make them more willing to try and understand ours in return. In regards to the mention of politicians trying to cater to the anti-immigration crowd in this thread-it's sad that there is a bit of an anti-immigration feeling among some people in this country to begin with. For one thing, it doesn't make sense, because where exactly do those people think their ancestors came from? They didn't just appear here out of thin air. For another, it's good to have diversity. Keeps things interesting, and can take away some of the prejudices that some people in this world may have about other cultures.

Quote:
Originally posted by Seabird
Since we simply can't accomodate them all, and it's not fair to pick and choose, it is actually more convenient for society as a whole for the immigrants to learn the language of their new country other than vice versa. If you enjoy learning new languages, that's great, but it shouldn't become a necessity because of immigrants in any country.
Again, though, while a good majority of the people in this country speak English, it's not the official language. When people come here to America, they could learn English, yes, but they could also learn many other types of languages, too. In other countries, there is an official language, so that's pretty much the only one you can learn.

But even so, I just think doing that with incoming people to this country would be nice, is all. If you don't want to do that, that's your choice. I just personally would 'cause I feel it'd help a bit for me and the new person.

Angela
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is online now  
Old 05-16-2005, 10:07 AM   #66
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,495
Local Time: 09:27 AM
it's true -- one of the things that makes the US unique is that we have no official language. speaking english is customary, but that's all. very slowly, but inevitably, we are going to become a bilingual society, and in 50 years i would imagine a sizeable percentage of the US will be fluent in both english and spanish.

and who knows? in 500 years everyone in the US might speak Chinese.

and let's not forget that in the mid-19th century there was a movement to make German the official language of the US due to all the German-speaking immigrants in the midwest.

times change, and those who hold some kind of sentimental attachment to the English language -- in the way that, say, the French are about their (quite beautiful) language -- are missing something about the essential nature of what it means to be a citizen of the US. we are dynamic, malleable, and adapt well to change since we live in an eternal present.

that said, it's sheer stupidity NOT to learn English and reside in the US. you're simply cutting yourself off from opportunity.

though it's easy to do. i lived in Belgium for a year, and lived in an English speaking world. my french was passable, but i had an accent, so whenever i spoke french outside my anglophone world, people would respond in english. made it very hard to learn French, and not for a lack of effort on my part.

(and those Belgians are obnoxious show-offs when it comes to their cunning linguistic abilities ...)

__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 05-16-2005, 10:15 AM   #67
War Child
 
NYRangers78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: THE BRONX NEW YORK GOD BLESS AMERICA
Posts: 540
Local Time: 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Rono
I think everyone should speak 2 or more langauges.and maybe ( illigal ) immigrants would be more stimulated to learn english if the would accepted as usefull people and valeuble citizens instead of second grade people who can be used as cheap labour.

its partly the mexicans/ immigrants fault for allowing themselves to be exploited by coming here illegally and working for a dollar an hour instead of an american who could do the job and get the right pay an hour. if employers knew they wouldnt be gettign cheap mexican/ immigrant labor for a dollar an hour or whatever they get paid, theyd surely pay more to an american or a naturalized american citizen.
__________________
NYRangers78 is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 10:20 AM   #68
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,270
Local Time: 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
it's true -- one of the things that makes the US unique is that we have no official language. speaking english is customary, but that's all. very slowly, but inevitably, we are going to become a bilingual society, and in 50 years i would imagine a sizeable percentage of the US will be fluent in both english and spanish.

and who knows? in 500 years everyone in the US might speak Chinese.

and let's not forget that in the mid-19th century there was a movement to make German the official language of the US due to all the German-speaking immigrants in the midwest.

times change, and those who hold some kind of sentimental attachment to the English language -- in the way that, say, the French are about their (quite beautiful) language -- are missing something about the essential nature of what it means to be a citizen of the US. we are dynamic, malleable, and adapt well to change since we live in an eternal present.
Exactly .

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
that said, it's sheer stupidity NOT to learn English and reside in the US. you're simply cutting yourself off from opportunity.
Yeah. It definitely would be beneficial.

Angela
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is online now  
Old 05-16-2005, 04:32 PM   #69
New Yorker
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,637
Local Time: 09:27 AM
Imagine if you lived in Canada and had to be fluent in french and english? that being said, I think Rono is right. Everyone student in this country should be required to learn a language in school and should be required to learn a language in college. I was able to skip out of college french because I took four years of it in high school and I miss it now. Wish I could speak more than just the basics.
__________________
sharky is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 04:50 PM   #70
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Bono's shades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The back of beyond
Posts: 5,038
Local Time: 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by NYRangers78



its partly the mexicans/ immigrants fault for allowing themselves to be exploited by coming here illegally and working for a dollar an hour instead of an american who could do the job and get the right pay an hour. if employers knew they wouldnt be gettign cheap mexican/ immigrant labor for a dollar an hour or whatever they get paid, theyd surely pay more to an american or a naturalized american citizen.
Don't you have it backwards? Isn't it more the employer's fault for exploiting people who are willing to work for less simply because as low as the wages are, they are still better than what they were making back in their home country?
__________________
Bono's shades is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 07:06 PM   #71
War Child
 
Seabird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: with 2 kids in high school they tell her that she's uncool, but she's still preoccupied with 1985
Posts: 906
Local Time: 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's shades


Don't you have it backwards? Isn't it more the employer's fault for exploiting people who are willing to work for less simply because as low as the wages are, they are still better than what they were making back in their home country?
Those employers are exploiting both the immigrants and the American worker who could have made more money at the job if it was not given to an illegal alien. While the wage the immigrant is making may be higher than what he got at home, with the American cost of living, he can't live on it in America. That's why so many illegals move in together and live in large groups.
__________________
Seabird is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 07:42 PM   #72
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,294
Local Time: 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by sharky
Imagine if you lived in Canada and had to be fluent in french and english?
Most people in Canada don't speak any kind of workable French.
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 08:27 PM   #73
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Bono's shades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The back of beyond
Posts: 5,038
Local Time: 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Seabird


Those employers are exploiting both the immigrants and the American worker who could have made more money at the job if it was not given to an illegal alien. While the wage the immigrant is making may be higher than what he got at home, with the American cost of living, he can't live on it in America. That's why so many illegals move in together and live in large groups.
Very true - everyone loses in this situation except the employers.
__________________
Bono's shades is offline  
Old 05-16-2005, 09:43 PM   #74
Acrobat
 
Ft. Worth Frog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 390
Local Time: 09:27 AM
One would have to take several consecutive years of a foreign language in school to learn it. I know dozens of people who have taken, French, Spanish, German, etc. for a couple of years but can now barely say "Where is the bathroom." One must be put in a situation where speaking the language is vital to survival in order to maintain fluency.
__________________
Ft. Worth Frog is offline  
Old 05-17-2005, 12:15 AM   #75
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
lmjhitman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: tbtf
Posts: 4,317
Local Time: 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Most people in Canada don't speak any kind of workable French.
i don't. but i'm from alberta, so

although i wish i did. being able to speak french fluently is highly sought after in many job markets here in alberta, and not just in government.
__________________

__________________
lmjhitman is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com