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Old 05-14-2005, 09:06 PM   #31
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Obviously you do care. You wouldn't feel as angry about the issue if you didn't.
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Old 05-14-2005, 10:45 PM   #32
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Point A: Rude sign, bigoted owner, establishment not to collect any of my hard-earned dollars.

Point B: If you move to another country to RESIDE in it long enough to seek employment - learn to speak the LOCAL LANGUAGE. Whether you're Mexican/South American/Central American, etc. moving to the US or if you're a Pygmy moving to Pakistan. Speak what you want at home - teach your children... it's their heritage - but in public, SPEAK IN THE LOCAL TONGUE. Period.

I welcome any and all to come to this great country and benefit from their hard work.... I just expect them to speak English while they're doing it.
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Old 05-14-2005, 10:55 PM   #33
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A question for all those who want people who come to live in the US from other countries and speak a different language.

How long does an immigrant get to learn the language?
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Old 05-14-2005, 11:31 PM   #34
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A question for all those who want people who come to live in the US from other countries and speak a different language.

How long does an immigrant get to learn the language?
Obviously, there's an adjustment period... a time when you first move to the States and are learning the language. But even in my average-sized, southeastern NC city (Wilmington), we have FREE English As a Second Language workshops - which, yes, are widely advertised in Spanish. Anyone can pick up a few words a day; after a few months, you should be able to piece together simple sentences. I understand that it takes time to learn a new language and that kids pick it up faster than adults, usually. But so many of the Latinos that I come across daily in my work (auto & property insurance) have had established residences for over a year yet still expect us to have an interpreter on staff - and that's the point that I take issue with.
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Old 05-15-2005, 10:22 AM   #35
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But that sign is really ridiculously rude, and I think it's got very little to do with language and a hell of a lot to do with bigotry. They're making a bigger statement here, one which says a lot more about them than they may want us to know.
That's it exactly. It's bigoted, stupid and rude, no different than segregation. That nasty attitude should have died out ages ago.
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Old 05-15-2005, 10:59 AM   #36
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Obviously, there's an adjustment period... a time when you first move to the States and are learning the language. But even in my average-sized, southeastern NC city (Wilmington), we have FREE English As a Second Language workshops - which, yes, are widely advertised in Spanish. Anyone can pick up a few words a day; after a few months, you should be able to piece together simple sentences. I understand that it takes time to learn a new language and that kids pick it up faster than adults, usually. But so many of the Latinos that I come across daily in my work (auto & property insurance) have had established residences for over a year yet still expect us to have an interpreter on staff - and that's the point that I take issue with.


I also have a problem with the selective nature of which immigrants have to learn English, and which don't. In Denver, we have a large Spanish community and the city accordingly prints almost everything in both languages, and encourages everyone to learn Spanish.

But we also have an extremely large Russian and Asian population--but nothing is printed in Russian, Vietnamese or Japanese. No one is encouraged to learn those languages--your lucky if you can find a Russian language class. Why is it that if you come here from Mexico or South America, you get a pass, but not if you come from Europe or Asia?

My Polish friend still struggles with English after 20 years in this country--if he hadn't learned English, he wouldn't have been able to get his degree, or get a job here. No one ever offered him a Polish interpreter. Yet just yesterday, I'm berated by a Spanish guy who can't understand me, yet we handed him a college degree.

I'm a big believer in keeping your language and culture alive, but the hypocrisy of the language barrier angers me.
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Old 05-15-2005, 12:14 PM   #37
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Obviously you do care. You wouldn't feel as angry about the issue if you didn't.
after thinking about it, your right. i do care a great deal. i see american values and the english language falling by the wayside and nyc turning into a dominican republic, puerto rico, and mexican village. years ago immigrants came here and they had to learn the language and contribute positively to the country. now? immigrants,and not just the non speaking english ones, come here with this entitlement attitude. now, i have to sit through tons of things in spanish on the phone just to get an english menu or operator and thats a disgrace. i ve already gone on about this is another thread about national id's so i wont get into it again...to each his own.

i dont have a problem with immigrants speaking their language to each other when theyre at home. but i have a guy at my job who always addresses me in spanish even though ive told the guy a 1000 times that i speak english and this is america and he should speak english. i took spanish for 3 years in high school and i can speak it but i dont care to. especially not with this guy. hes been in the country for 30 years now and his first language long ago shouldve been english. the kicker is that he speaks perfect english. its almost like hes purposely doing it to either piss me off or just to thumb his nose at america and the english language. not to mention its also disrespectful when hes talking to other guys in spanish in front of me. 1) its rude and 2) u never know if hes talking about you or not.


and im not even a teacher but i dont blame the public school teachers one bit for the problems in nyc or anywhere else in america for that matter. i have plenty of friends who are teachers who are fed up trying to teach these kids. the kids dont speak english and dont want to learn and when the kids act up and my friends call the kids' parents, the parents come in and blame the teacher. there is no sort of parenting going on at home id say for the majority of public school students. my tax dollars are going towards the babysitting service otherwise known as the nyc public school system.
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Old 05-15-2005, 12:28 PM   #38
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after thinking about it, your right. i do care a great deal. i see american values and the english language falling by the wayside and nyc turning into a dominican republic, puerto rico, and mexican village. years ago immigrants came here and they had to learn the language and contribute positively to the country. now? immigrants,and not just the non speaking english ones, come here with this entitlement attitude. now, i have to sit through tons of things in spanish on the phone just to get an english menu or operator and thats a disgrace. i ve already gone on about this is another thread about national id's so i wont get into it again...to each his own.

I'm sorry but you're talking like our language is something bad wich contaminates the "pureness" of your english, I don't know ....

it is obvious.... if you go to work to another country you have to learn a new lenguage and a new way of life... but let me tell you something: languages and cultures evolve and they feed with the interaction with new people, like inmigrants for example.

And I can say the same thing of the "American Culture" and the English language: that they are contaminating our culture and stuff. But I really think that the world culture chances with things like the commerce and the media, blending a lot of values. Culture and language are not static things, they move with the people.
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Old 05-15-2005, 12:56 PM   #39
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the way i see it, if u are living in colombia, then u should be speaking spanish. if u dont know spanish, then one should learn it if they are going to be liviing there. if u are living in america and u dont know english, then you should learn it. same as if i was moving to germany, id learn german. having never been to colombia, how in the english language contaminating colombia.

and i dont intend to make it sound as if the spanish language is bad. its not. its actually very beautiful. i just dont think it should be thrust upon everyone in america and it automatically be assumed that people speak it. i say the same thing about all the non english speaking immigrants who come to america and dont make the effort to learn english or if they know english, wont speak it.
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Old 05-15-2005, 01:28 PM   #40
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great post, Muggsy.

one thing to keep in mind when discussing this topic: we in north america are very lucky to live where live. having to move to another country to support ourselves is not something many of us will have to do. moving to a different country, with different languages, cultures, ways of living, etc. is difficult, and from that end, i have a lot of respect for the people who choose to do so in search of a better life.

also, it is not easy to learn a new language as an adult. one of my good friends teaches english as a second language (ESL) to newly arrived immigrants from all over the planet. the kids pick it up quickly enough, but the adults often struggle. english is not an easy language to learn--phonetically speaking, it's a nightmare, not to mention those 300+ irregular verbs. as a canadian who knows french, but still struggles to speak it well, i know how difficult it is for me, and i grew up surrounded with french language and culture.

i don't think english is under attack, nor do i think our culture is in jeopardy (far from it).
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Old 05-15-2005, 02:05 PM   #41
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dandy...u live in canada. i dont know how it is in canada, but come to new york and live in the bronx for a week. youll see exactly what im talking about....
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Old 05-15-2005, 02:12 PM   #42
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There is no way I could survive living in the Bronx. I am sure I would be annoyed with a lot of things in a matter of seconds.

I will admit that I get very annoyed when I talk to anyone that does not speak English well at all. I will typically go on rants about how I find it rude not to learn the language of the country you are living in. However I do wish I knew how to speak Spanish, French, Russian, German, Chinese, Japanesse, etc. instead of American English and Southern American English.

There are good points made in this thread and I am glad I posted this.
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Old 05-15-2005, 02:32 PM   #43
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Here's the thing, though-in some other countries, the language there is the official language, hence why they expect you to learn it, why it's required and all that.

Here in America, however, we don't have an official language. Yes, a good majority of the people speak English, but we have no official language. Therefore, while it certainly would help people who move here to learn English, it's not exactly a requirement, because English isn't our official language. It's just something that would be appreciated.

And I do think that if they're going to take the time to learn English, we should try and learn at the very least the basics of theirs. That's what I did when a girl moved to my town back in Iowa from Mexico-I decided to take Spanish so I could understand her a bit better, and at the same time, she was doing her part to learn the language I speak.

Angela
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Old 05-15-2005, 02:51 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by NYRangers78
the way i see it, if u are living in colombia, then u should be speaking spanish. if u dont know spanish, then one should learn it if they are going to be liviing there. if u are living in america and u dont know english, then you should learn it. same as if i was moving to germany, id learn german.
just a thought: the people who founded the US and Canada didn't bother to learn the natives' languages when they first arrived here. in fact, they had no respect at all for the people who had lived on this land for centuries. they just came in and took over, by force.

how quickly we forget that our countries were founded by illegal immigrants.
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Old 05-15-2005, 03:11 PM   #45
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Originally posted by dandy


just a thought: the people who founded the US and Canada didn't bother to learn the natives' languages when they first arrived here. in fact, they had no respect at all for the people who had lived on this land for centuries. they just came in and took over, by force.

how quickly we forget that our countries were founded by illegal immigrants.
Ugh, I hate arguments like that. It's these kind of apologist statements that lead us into the politically-charged language debates we're in today. It is said repeatedly here in Colorado "This was Mexico, so we should all speak Spanish" as if that will reverse history and make everything all right. Instead it just leads to shoddy bi-lingual policies.

I am sorry for what happened in the past, as I think many Americans are. But it's not relevant to an ESL debate. The mindsets of the early colonies was completely different in regards to other cultures than ours today. Calling them "conquerors" rather than illegal immigrants is much more accurate--but admittedly not as catchy.
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