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Old 08-29-2006, 01:52 PM   #31
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


What way are they going? I really like these brands so I would like to know why they are so bad in your views.
AE used to be my favorite, mostly because they use actual wool for their sweaters, not synthetic crap. I've never set foot in AF because they basically hand out softcore porn to 10 year olds, a discussion for another thread. However, now I'd probably be laughed at if I were seen wearing either label. They're cheap (the way they're made), sometimes trashy, and kind of childish - like I see them and think "sophomore year of high school." When I was actually in high school, I only wanted to wear AE.
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Old 08-29-2006, 02:29 PM   #32
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These brands are no worse than anything else out there on the market. No worse than Nike or Adidas or Mexx or Diesel or whatever. Same shit, different name.

On a personal note, I find it frightening to even go into A&F, or God forbid, Hollister, because it's dark (you can't see where you're going), it's LOUD (you can't hear yourself thinking), it's staffed with frightening overtanned young things (that look like aryan oompa loompas), the clothes are perfumed or something (WTF) and there are 9 year old girls walking around with their stomachs and "breasts" hanging out. Really creepy.
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Old 08-29-2006, 02:51 PM   #33
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i feel ancient whenever i set foot into A&F (though i do enjoy the sensory overload of the flagship Ruehl stores they've opened up in Tyson's Corner in Falls Church, VA).

and i'm 28.
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Old 08-29-2006, 03:35 PM   #34
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


What way are they going? I really like these brands so I would like to know why they are so bad in your views.
First of all, I did not say that AE and A&F are "bad," I just said that the dress code gave students who wore those brands countinued opportunities to show off.

But, I really do dislike those brands, and for several reasons. One, I just don't like the style of the clothes. Two, just as LivLuvBootlegMusic said, the ads for A&F are almost porn, and they're aiming at middle school kids (just go to the website, it's disgusting). And three, I hate that all clothing is branded, so I take off all the patches and labels on my clothes. I also happen to be a huge fan of t-shirt reconstruction and sewing, I even helped a friend make her prom dress last year, and I wore a sari. I guess you could just say that I don't like fitting in.
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Old 08-29-2006, 03:41 PM   #35
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The flag IS a symbol of the South....good and bad. If you lived here you would know that.
I do live in the south and it's not a symbol of the South. Melon is correct that it's a symbol of divisiveness, and a war that was lost 140 years ago.

Time to get over it.
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Old 08-29-2006, 05:16 PM   #36
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Originally posted by anitram
On a personal note, I find it frightening to even go into A&F, or God forbid, Hollister, because it's dark (you can't see where you're going), it's LOUD (you can't hear yourself thinking), it's staffed with frightening overtanned young things (that look like aryan oompa loompas), the clothes are perfumed or something (WTF) and there are 9 year old girls walking around with their stomachs and "breasts" hanging out. Really creepy.
do they have the "live manequin" at the A&F's near you? they disturb me.

and how come every damned item in the "hip and cool" stores come pre-wrinkled these days? i can wrinkle my clothes all on my own, thank you very much.

back to topic... yes, the stars and bars are very much a symbol of the south's past, the same way the swastika is a symbol of a part of germany's past... but we shouldn't go around flyin' swastika's now should we? didn't think so.
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Old 08-29-2006, 06:59 PM   #37
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The flag IS a symbol of the South....good and bad. If you lived here you would know that.
Apparently, black Southerners would beg to differ.

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Old 08-29-2006, 09:09 PM   #38
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Apparently, black Southerners would beg to differ.

Melon
Absolutely. They sure as hell don't want that thing on a flagpole in their communities.
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Old 08-29-2006, 10:36 PM   #39
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Originally posted by mattgerth
Funny, cause the Florida State Flag is based on the Southern Cross Battle Flag......
Nope; I hear this myth frequently but the Florida and Alabama flags incorporate the Cross of Saint Andrew, representing his crucifixion. Florida was under Spanish rule, represented by the Saint Andrew's cross predating the Civil War and Confederacy as the Burgundian Saltire from 1565-1763.

Both states had other flags representing their secessionist movements during and immediately following the Civil War.

~U2Alabama
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Old 08-29-2006, 10:40 PM   #40
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Originally posted by verte76


So is the Alabama State Flag. We have a Confederate War Flag at our capital, and there's been a ton of controversy over that thing. I think they should take it down, it's just too divisive.
Fotunately, our two most recent governors have kept the Confederate battle flag demoted to some Confederate memorial garden on the Capital grounds. It no longer flies on the dome flag pole.

The Confederate battle flag and all other flags of the former C.S.A. are symbols of a treasonous rebellion and should not be displayed by any agencies of government in the U.S.A.

~U2Alabama
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Old 08-29-2006, 10:43 PM   #41
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Nope; I hear this myth frequently but the Florida and Alabama flags incorporate the Cross of Saint Andrew, representing his crucifixion. Florida was under Spanish rule, represented by the Saint Andrew's cross predating the Civil War and Confederacy as the Burgundian Saltire from 1565-1763.
I learn stuff from the people on this board everyday. Thanks bama.
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Old 08-30-2006, 05:56 AM   #42
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I'd been wondering about the AL and FL flags as well--the MS and GA flags are/were the only ones to directly incorporate the Rebel Flag post-Civil War (ca. 1890s and 1950s, respectively), so far as I know. Georgians voted in 2003 to change their design to one which no longer incorporates the Rebel Flag (though it is largely based on the first Confederate national flag, i.e., the original "stars and bars"); Mississippians voted down a redesign which would've eliminated the Rebel logo in 2001. In both cases, large numbers of voters either boycotted or simply blew off the referendum.

I understand and appreciate that Southerners who are enamored of the Rebel Flag (pretty much invariably white folks in my experience, and I grew up in a 90%-black Delta town) don't view it as the equivalent of a bumper sticker saying "I long for a return to slavery" or anything like that (and yes, I realize most of their ancestors weren't slaveholders either). In fact, I'm pretty sure I remember being taught in grade school that the inclusion of the Rebel Flag in our state flag was meant to commemorate our war dead and their kinsmen who suffered on the home front, which doesn't sound particularly noxious so far as it goes. But what about the suffering and death of black Mississippians--nearly 40% of the state's population even today, and far more before segregation sent them northward in droves looking for a better livelihood? The full civic realization, to the extent that it ever existed, of the Southern values many fondly see embodied in the Rebel Flag--states' rights; chivalry; an agrarian "yeoman" ethos; cultural refinement as opposed to "plebeian" culture; community-focused civic and religious life, etc.--was heavily built upon the blood, sweat and misery of black slaves, there's simply no getting around that. Not all black Mississippians I knew actively or chronically chafed at the Rebel Flag's ubiquitous presence, just as not all chronically chafed at the ubiquitous racial slurs and monopoly of whites on local political power--but I can't recall a single black friend (and most all my friends were black) who felt the kind of pride in or identification with that flag that some of my white friends seemed to. And of course there were those who regarded it as I might regard a flag which incorporated a swastika.

For that reason I felt ashamed when Mississippians voted down removing the Rebel logo from our state flag, and despite my appreciation of all the good things the Rebel Flag symbolizes to many, I feel the same way about people flying it in their yards or wearing it to school in T-shirt form. Personally, I don't care nearly as much about the "separatist, treasonous" sentiments it allegedly conveys towards the US as a whole--as I've said before, I reject the notion that Southerners, regardless of how they feel about the Rebel Flag, have any difficulty identifying themselves as Americans first and always; and in view of history, I can't say I find the argument that white Northerners might feel marginalized or oppressed by it all that compelling, though I can understand why the descendants of those who died fighting for the Union (and against slavery, that being the root cause ultimately) might take offense on those grounds. Now the defensive analogy to how Native Americans might feel about the US flag, and what untroubled short shrift that gets, that I can understand, though not as a justification for flying the Rebel Flag really--but then Native Americans, at least in principle, are sovereign nations in their own right; African-Americans are not.
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Old 08-30-2006, 06:00 AM   #43
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Is it a private school?

If yes then theres no issue.
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Old 08-30-2006, 07:56 AM   #44
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Yolland pretty much said everything I was going to say and a helluva a lot better than I would have.

The Confederate flag could be said to represent the "heritage" of white southerners only.

And while I agree with LivLuv that there were other issues that led up to the Civil War (states rights, for example) they really all boiled down to the issue of slavery, so to me the Confederacy will always be inextricably connected to slavery, and any "pride" in the Confederacy will of necessity have a racial element since no black person in their right mind would have supported the Confederacy (if they'd even had the right to voice an opinon, which they didn't).
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