NJ to allow civil unions - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-15-2006, 10:07 AM   #1
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 01:12 AM
NJ to allow civil unions

Quote:
TRENTON, N.J. - Under pressure from New Jersey's highest court to offer marriage or its equivalent to gay couples, the Legislature voted Thursday to make New Jersey the third state to allow civil unions.

Democratic Gov. Jon Corzine said he would sign the measure, which would extend to same-sex couples all the rights and privileges available under state law to married people. The bill passed the Assembly 56-19 and the Senate 23-12.

"Love counts," Democratic Assemblyman Wilfredo Caraballo, a chief sponsor of the bill, said as the debate opened. "The gender of whom one loves should not matter to the state."

But Republican Assemblyman Ronald S. Dancer said: "It's my personal belief, faith and religious practice that marriage has been defined in the Bible. And this is one time that I cannot compromise my personal beliefs and faiths."

Massachusetts is the only state to allow gay marriage. Vermont and Connecticut have civil unions, and California has domestic partnerships that work similarly.

Among the benefits gay couples would get under New Jersey's civil unions bill are adoption rights, hospital visitation rights and inheritance rights.

Gay rights advocates welcomed the legislation as a step forward but said they would continue to push for the right to marry.

The bill was drafted in response to a landmark New Jersey Supreme Court ruling in October that required the state to extend the rights and benefits of marriage to gay couples within 180 days. The court, in its 4-3 ruling, left it up to the Legislature to decide whether to call such unions "marriages" or something else.

Gay rights groups have argued that not calling such unions "marriage" creates a different, and inferior, institution.

Steven Goldstein, director of the gay rights advocacy organization Garden State Equality, said he expects gay couples to be able to get married in New Jersey within two years.
Good. Only 46 (or 45 if you count CA) to go.
__________________

__________________
indra is offline  
Old 12-15-2006, 10:17 AM   #2
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
redhotswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Waiting for this madness to end.
Posts: 5,846
Local Time: 12:12 AM
__________________

__________________
redhotswami is offline  
Old 12-15-2006, 10:33 AM   #3
Blue Crack Distributor
 
LarryMullen's POPAngel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: I'll be up with the sun, I'm not coming down...
Posts: 53,698
Local Time: 12:12 AM
__________________
LarryMullen's POPAngel is offline  
Old 12-15-2006, 10:34 AM   #4
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 12:12 AM


and something will happen in NY soon. the general trend is that while most of America isn't ready for the word marriage, a majority support civil unions. look for the traditionally more educated, liberal states to pass loads of civil union bills in the next 5 years and the traditionally less educated, reactionary states (places that might be deemed ... backwards) will take another 50 years.

also, while homophobic anti-marriage equality amendments did pass in 2006 in 6 of 7 states (props to the people of AZ!) they were passing by percentages in the mid-50s, nowhere near the upper 60s we saw in 2004. it's dying as a wedge issue, it is not the new abortion, and the younger you go, the more pro-gay voters are. and note that it passed the Assembly by a vote of 56 to 19, and the Senate by
23 to 12.

in fact, all the anti-marriage equality folks are going to be left with are theocratic dictates and know-nothingisms more fitting of a mullah in Iran like we saw from this assemblyman:

[q]But Republican Assemblyman Ronald S. Dancer said: "It's my personal belief, faith and religious practice that marriage has been defined in the Bible. And this is one time that I cannot compromise my personal beliefs and faiths."[/q]

so, anyway, happy about rights and it's nice that a gay couple is now considered almost 3/5ths of a straight couple.

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 12-15-2006, 11:10 AM   #5
Blue Crack Addict
 
Varitek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: on borderland we run
Posts: 16,861
Local Time: 12:12 AM


One concern I have is that eventually, after the 50 year period it might take to get civil unions accepted through most of the country, how hard will it be to convert civil unions into full marriage rights? Will most people just be willing to let the progress stop there, or will there be so little opposition that equality will be easy to achieve?
__________________
Varitek is offline  
Old 12-15-2006, 11:15 AM   #6
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,338
Local Time: 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Varitek
or will there be so little opposition that equality will be easy to achieve?
I'm thinking this will be the case. People will be unwilling to allow this kind of discrimination to continue, so it will be addressed.
__________________
martha is online now  
Old 12-15-2006, 11:18 AM   #7
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Varitek
One concern I have is that eventually, after the 50 year period it might take to get civil unions accepted through most of the country, how hard will it be to convert civil unions into full marriage rights?


my understanding is that civil unions are a step -- you get civil unions, and people benefit, straights see it's not such a big deal, and then you work through the courts to make the case that civil unions aren't an equal alternative and that marriage is really the only way to honor the equal protection clause.

baby steps.

i'm fine with it.

what i'm most concerned about, at this point, would be hospital visitation rights, power of attorney, inheritance, and adoption rights. that's what matters to me right now. i am lucky in that my friends afford me the same status and respect as any heterosexual couple, though it would be nice to get that from society at large. however, it's practical matters that i'm most concerned with.

while i have a boyfriend and not a partner, yet, i can see a time in the future where i might have to draw up a set of legal contracts to protect us, and to protect what we have worked for, from my boyfriend's family. they have been kind to me and they love him very much, even if they've made their Baptists beliefs known and used them to torture him in ways i don't think they totally understand, but there's both a class issue (he makes way more than they do combined) and the fact that i'm never going to be the equal of, say, his sister's husband in their eyes. if we don't protect ourselves, and say he dies in a car wreck, what's to prevent them from barring me from having any say in the funeral, or from taking his share of our theoretical condo/house?

we haven't crossed this bridge yet, so i'm not totally fluent in the language and intricacies of the law, but i'm already seeing just how important it is to get some basic rights as a couple first, and we'll work on the whole "respect us as much as anyone else" a bit later.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 12-15-2006, 11:28 AM   #8
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 01:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

my understanding is that civil unions are a step -- you get civil unions, and people benefit, straights see it's not such a big deal, and then you work through the courts to make the case that civil unions aren't an equal alternative and that marriage is really the only way to honor the equal protection clause.
I'd rather have ALL unions recognised by the state be called civil unions and if a couple wants to have a religious service let that be called a marriage (or whatever the particular church wanted to call it). I think it's a little more defined that way.
__________________
indra is offline  
Old 12-15-2006, 12:59 PM   #9
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Strong Badia
Posts: 3,430
Local Time: 05:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by indra


I'd rather have ALL unions recognised by the state be called civil unions and if a couple wants to have a religious service let that be called a marriage (or whatever the particular church wanted to call it). I think it's a little more defined that way.
Actually, I agree with this.
__________________
nathan1977 is offline  
Old 12-15-2006, 02:21 PM   #10
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 05:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by indra


I'd rather have ALL unions recognised by the state be called civil unions and if a couple wants to have a religious service let that be called a marriage (or whatever the particular church wanted to call it). I think it's a little more defined that way.
I agree with this.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 12-15-2006, 02:22 PM   #11
War Child
 
Mr. Green Eyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Road Trippin' Across The Universe to Zoo Station
Posts: 835
Local Time: 01:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



so, anyway, happy about rights and it's nice that a gay couple is now considered almost 3/5ths of a straight couple.

Yes, now only 2/5ths more to go. This is a great thing, for all gay people out there, and hopefully, slowly but surely, all , or most of the homophobia in the US will die out. I know that will take a long time, but I think that it may happen. Just my 2 cents.
__________________
Mr. Green Eyes is offline  
Old 12-15-2006, 04:45 PM   #12
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 12:12 AM
i think homophobia will always exist, like racism or sexism, but hopefully we can stamp out homophobia and discrimination in our laws.

people are free to think whatever they want about my relationship and the fact that i'm a man who finds men with muscles and names like Daniel Craig really attractive; you just can't discriminate against me on account of that.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 12-15-2006, 11:54 PM   #13
War Child
 
Mr. Green Eyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Road Trippin' Across The Universe to Zoo Station
Posts: 835
Local Time: 01:12 AM
Very true, people shouldn't discriminate againist you, or any gay people for that matter. But, at lease, we have our families, friends, and of course, other gay people who we can lean on whenever we're feeling down.
__________________
Mr. Green Eyes is offline  
Old 12-16-2006, 12:54 AM   #14
Vocal parasite
 
Axver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: 1853
Posts: 151,043
Local Time: 04:12 PM
Wow, this is great news. I'm glad to know not all of the US is regressing.

Quote:
Originally posted by indra
I'd rather have ALL unions recognised by the state be called civil unions and if a couple wants to have a religious service let that be called a marriage (or whatever the particular church wanted to call it). I think it's a little more defined that way.
That sounds like it would be a better way of doing things.
__________________
"Mediocrity is never so dangerous as when it is dressed up as sincerity." - Søren Kierkegaard

Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

U2gigs: The most comprehensive U2 setlist database!
Gig pictures | Blog
Axver is online now  
Old 12-16-2006, 01:30 AM   #15
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,297
Local Time: 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by indra

I'd rather have ALL unions recognised by the state be called civil unions and if a couple wants to have a religious service let that be called a marriage (or whatever the particular church wanted to call it). I think it's a little more defined that way.
I understand that point and I think I even agree with it, but if you look at jurisdictions where gay marriage exists and is called that - marriage - like Canada, for example, nothing has changed! And the population has really gotten used to the idea to the extent that the Conservative government said that this issue was essentially permanently closed (like our abortion issue).

So we do have precedent and we can see that hell hasn't broken loose just because we started calling a civil union marriage.
__________________

__________________
anitram is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com