NJ Abolishes The Death Penalty

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I'm so glad to hear about this. Hopefully other states will follow.

The DP makes no sense -- certainly not from the Christian perspective.
 
the iron horse said:



there are cases where there is no doubt of guilt.






electricchair500.jpg


I agree
there are six people in this picture

all of them believe they have the right to take human life
 
The last thing I want is some person claiming their chosen religious beliefs should have any sway over the laws of the land.
 
I'm not even sure I understand the Christian pro death penalty argument.

Good for New Jersey.
 
The death penalty is a barbarity. It is not necessary to 'take the side of the killer' to make that point, although one might note that in a system of supposedly fair trial, the killer ain't the killer until proven so, and somebody must in the meantime take his or her side.

And then there's those messy damn cases where it turns out justice was fallible.

I know what Gandalf the wizard had to say about the death penalty though:

"Many that live deserve death, and many that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not to quick to pass judgement."

Make of it what you will.

But prison isn't a theatre to make us good people feel good. It is, as I see it, a rough mish-mash of 'sending a message' and protecting society from the offender. Depending of course on what their offence was. That's the civics-class version, anyhow. I won't pretend that the system works... so God help us when we take the power of life and death in our hands, yeah?
 
i hate that 3 meals a day bullshit.

theres a difference between spending your life outside, doing what you want, going wherever you want, and spending your life in jail, most of the time in a small cell, eating bsic meals, maybe a bit of entertainment, but a whole lot of loneliness, boredom and fear. It ain't a freaking picnic.

And you know what, mabe this is just absolutely FOUL of me to think, but maybe...just maybe, some of those people who killed someone regret it. Maybe there were a shitload of circumstances hat surrounded it, that if whoosh their dead, they ain't ever going to learn.

Now i don't think all murderers are all missunderstood people, not at all, i have extreme feelings towards abusers and child murderers and all of that, and believe they DON'T get a second chance...

but it comes down to one sentence for me.

no one has the right to take someone else life.
 
the iron horse said:
It's alway amazing how some get so concerned over the fate of killers and so unconcerned about their victims.


Jesse Timmendequas and the other convicted killers in N.J. will enjoy three meals a day and life.

Their victims are dead.

No thumbs up from me,
only saddness

:rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

BRILLIANT reply!!
 
dazzlingamy said:

no one has the right to take someone else life.

You're very right Amy.

John Couey had no right to stuff Jessica Lunsford in a plastic bag and bury her alive....

Scott Peterson had no right to kill his wife and unborn son and throw them into the San Fransisco bay....

Charles Manson and his family had no right to butcher Sharon Tate, her unborn child and four of her friends......

Mark David Chapman had no right to gun down John Lennon in cold blood.....

+++

Unfortunately, this NJ decision will make it open season for the citizens because the criminals now know that they can committ the worst crimes imaginable and get away with it.

....and YES.....,life in prison IS getting away with it......

Very sad.
 
AchtungBono said:


You're very right Amy.

John Couey had no right to stuff Jessica Lunsford in a plastic bag and bury her alive....

Scott Peterson had no right to kill his wife and unborn son and throw them into the San Fransisco bay....

Charles Manson and his family had no right to butcher Sharon Tate, her unborn child and four of her friends......

Mark David Chapman had no right to gun down John Lennon in cold blood.....

Of course not, of course they didn't. But how does taking their lives ultimately accomplish anything? It is an empty satisfaction, a cold "comfort". What does it make the rest of us?

It is already open season for criminals, most don't care at all what their punishment is and don't think about it when they commit crimes. Many want to die anyway because their lives and psyches are so messed up, and prison certainly is worse for them because they have to live with that on a daily basis. When you are in that situation I would imagine you tend to dwell on certain things, you are forced to.

Believe me, I hate people who kill children and the basest emotion in me wants them dead, but that is an emotional reaction and we shouldn't base our laws and justice system on that. I hate Scott Peterson and all of his ilk, but I think he is probably rotting in prison in the best possible way.
 
AchtungBono said:


You're very right Amy.

John Couey had no right to stuff Jessica Lunsford in a plastic bag and bury her alive....

Scott Peterson had no right to kill his wife and unborn son and throw them into the San Fransisco bay....

Charles Manson and his family had no right to butcher Sharon Tate, her unborn child and four of her friends......

Mark David Chapman had no right to gun down John Lennon in cold blood.....

+++

Unfortunately, this NJ decision will make it open season for the citizens because the criminals now know that they can committ the worst crimes imaginable and get away with it.

....and YES.....,life in prison IS getting away with it......

Very sad.

but yet, you have the death penalty in a lot of states and you have the highest murder rate in the first world countries in the world. ITs obviously not that big of a deterrent anyway?

I mean Virginia Tech? Doesn't Virginia have the death penalty? Did that dude even care about that? no. So having the death penalty is not a deterrent and abolishing it doesn't mean "open season"

of course those people didn't have the right to take their lives, thats why they get life in prison - its not 'getting away with it' its spending your life behind bars. Getting away with it means actually getting away with it, BIG difference.
 
yeah it is a goddamned shame nj abolished the death penalty. it was such a great deterrant. there was no crime because people were afraid of getting put to death for their actions. now newark, which, just a few weeks ago was a crime-free safe haven and happy go fucking lucky place is going to attract anyone who wants to go on a killing-spree.

:rolleyes:
 
the iron horse said:
It's alway amazing how some get so concerned over the fate of killers and so unconcerned about their victims.


Jesse Timmendequas and the other convicted killers in N.J. will enjoy three meals a day and life.

Their victims are dead.

No thumbs up from me,
only saddness

nowhere, in this entire thread, has anybody said they didn't give a shit for the victims.
 
AchtungBono said:



Unfortunately, this NJ decision will make it open season for the citizens because the criminals now know that they can committ the worst crimes imaginable and get away with it.

....and YES.....,life in prison IS getting away with it......

Very sad.



there is no one who commits a murder because they think they're going to get live in prison versus the death penalty. it is not a deterrent. no one thinks they are going to get caught, regardless of punishment.
 
unico said:


nowhere, in this entire thread, has anybody said they didn't give a shit for the victims.



but this is the only argument they have.

if you don't want murderers to be murdered as well, then you don't care about those who were murdered.

it's that simple.

you can't think two things at once, dear unico. complexity is not for the compassionate.
 
AchtungBono said:


No BVS, I'm not......but I'd rather see people smiling and laughing than frowning.

Well that's a good sentiment. But honestly it's hard to take you seriously sometimes when you say things like that.
 
AchtungBono said:
Unfortunately, this NJ decision will make it open season for the citizens because the criminals now know that they can committ the worst crimes imaginable and get away with it.

....and YES.....,life in prison IS getting away with it......

Very sad.

You are so out of your depth right now it's not even funny. Seriously, it would be amazing if you took the time to actually read up and learn about the topics you enter into here in FYM rather than just react with your (incredibly naive) gut. No one who was not going to commit a murder because of the death penalty is going to suddenly change their mind because now all they can get is life behind bars.

You guys make prison sound like a resort.

You're confined to one place, told what to do, when to do it, how to do it, where to do it. You can't disobey or then you're even more confined, often with no outside light for days or even weeks. You can't take a break from the daily grind, can't spend time with friends and family, can't decide to take a vacation, can't raise your children or even take care of your dying parents. Yeah, it's such a light sentence to live out the rest of your life removed from society and living under someone else's rules with no consideration given to your wishes or desires, and with nothing but time to think for the rest of your life about what you did and what it did to your life.

And for the last freaking time, vengeance is not the same as justice. If you want to spill some blood, fine, but don't for a second think everyone else is weak or soft on crime simply because they understand the distinction.
 
AchtungBono said:
Unfortunately, this NJ decision will make it open season for the citizens because the criminals now know that they can committ the worst crimes imaginable and get away with it.

....and YES.....,life in prison IS getting away with it......

Very sad.

See what Irvine said.
 
AchtungBono said:

Unfortunately, this NJ decision will make it open season for the citizens because the criminals now know that they can committ the worst crimes imaginable and get away with it.

....and YES.....,life in prison IS getting away with it......

Very sad.
Geez, we here in Australia are living in a fool's paradise where we abolished the death penalty decades ago, and yet we have a much lower rate of murder per capita than the US.

Our criminals obviously haven't realised that going to jail is a holiday....
 
the iron horse said:
It's alway amazing how some get so concerned over the fate of killers and so unconcerned about their victims.

That's utter rubbish and an utterly lazy mischaracterisation of other people's point of view and if you've anything about you at all you'll withdraw the implication.

It actually makes the arguments MORE difficult for rational supporters of the death penalty (in which I'd include myself) when implications like this are made.
 
blueeyedgirl said:

Geez, we here in Australia are living in a fool's paradise where we abolished the death penalty decades ago, and yet we have a much lower rate of murder per capita than the US.

Our criminals obviously haven't realised that going to jail is a holiday....

LMAO! exactly! We're the model to say that not having a death penalty works! (oh and that little thng called GUN CONTROL)
 
dazzlingamy said:


LMAO! exactly! We're the model to say that not having a death penalty works! (oh and that little thng called GUN CONTROL)



yes, but that's because you hate freedom, see?

:tsk:

to be fair, there was a little thing called Port Arthur ...
 
dazzlingamy said:


LMAO! exactly! We're the model to say that not having a death penalty works! (oh and that little thng called GUN CONTROL)

Well Canada has the least restrictive gun control laws in the Commonwealth (they are piecemeal at best) and no death penalty and it seems like our criminals aren't out there committing violent sprees in celebration of a life sentence.
 
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