Next time Israel is criticized for killing innocents....Ask yourself why? - U2 Feedback

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Old 02-11-2004, 07:28 PM   #1
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Next time Israel is criticized for killing innocents....Ask yourself why?

[Q]
A masked Hamas militant sets up a makeshift mortar launcher against Israeli forces, unseen, as Palestinian youths try to cover him from the sight of the forces during an incursion in a Gaza city's neighborhood, Wednesday Feb. 11, 2004. Israeli troops moved into a neighborhood at the eastern edge of Gaza City early Wednesday, killing atleast 14 Palestinians and wounding at least 27 others in exchanges of fire, residents said, sparking the bloodiest fighting in Gaza in four months. (AP Photo/Adel Hana)


Palestinian militants exchange fire with Israeli troops in the Gaza Strip (news - web sites) February 11, 2004. In their deadliest strike for months, Israeli troops killed at least 14 Palestinians in gun battles in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday, in raids Israel said were to root out militants behind attacks on Jewish settlements. REUTERS/Str



A Palestinian militant points his gun at the sky during a firefight with Israeli forces in Gaza City which killed 15(AFP/Mahmoud Hams)


A Palestinian militant sets up a home made anti-tank missile during an exchange fire with Israeli troops during a raid into the Gaza Strip (news - web sites) February 11, 2004. In their deadliest strike for months, Israeli troops killed at least 14 Palestinians in gun battles in the Gaza Strip Wednesday, in raids Israel said were to root out militants behind attacks on Jewish settlements. The army assault followed signs of unease in the military over a shock announcement by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites) last week that he planned to pull all settlers out of the Gaza Strip. Photo by Reuters [/Q]


These pictures demonstrate how these terrorists work. They hide in and among the people causing further bloodshed on their side. It saddens me. Yet somehow this is Israels fault that these people teach their children to help the terrorists by standing in and among them.
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Old 02-11-2004, 10:39 PM   #2
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With no regular army, technically they are all civilians. I wonder how many "innocents" wore ski masks before they were shot....
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Old 02-23-2004, 07:39 PM   #3
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Old 02-23-2004, 11:38 PM   #4
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I have no love for Palestine, considering some of their rampant human rights abuses, irrespective of the Intifada. I can also guarantee that Israel has been overpatient. Considering what happened in 1947 and 1967, if that happened to the U.S., the neighboring Arab states would be a bombed out historical relic.

I think the main reason that liberalism has been attached to the Palestinian cause is more out of sympathy for the perceived "underdog" and the fact that Israel, often, has some pretty unlovable, hard-line prime ministers.

Frankly, the situation between Israel and Palestine has been mangled throughout the decades as much as Iraq was mangled over the last decade. Pretty much *any* solution is going to be undesirable and bloody, at this stage of the game, because neither the Palestinian terrorists nor the hard-core Israeli Zionists will ever budge, and any peace process will be derailed by either or both of those groups, as they both desire each other's complete obliteration.

In truth, though, Israel has a military that its neighbors cannot compete with. Syria didn't retaliate against that Israeli military excursion into their territory late last year, mostly because it knows it would lose. In other words, this will probably never be solved outside of a bloody war that Israel could easily win, if it went all-out.

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Old 02-26-2004, 01:52 PM   #5
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just a question, no argue: didn't israel took the palestinian territory when it was created by the english?
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Old 02-26-2004, 02:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by babyman
just a question, no argue: didn't israel took the palestinian territory when it was created by the english?
Britain had a "mandate" over what's now Israel, Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza Strip, which was established in the aftermath of the first world war. However it wasn't until 1947 that the UN General Assembly voted to establish two states in the region: one Arab and one Jewish. By this time Britain had actually relinquished its mandate over Palestine because of the increasing violence between Jewish and Arab militias in the region and so requested that the UN determine the future of the territory.

I don't know if that actually answers your question or if I'm just rambling aimlessly.
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Old 02-26-2004, 03:38 PM   #7
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The founders of the State of Israel used what we call "terror" tactics to drive the British out.
They bombed hotels, derailed trains and killed innocent victims to drive the Brits out.

I believe the UN plan was to take 10 years to resolve the issues between the parties.

The founders of the state of Israel declared themselves a state prematurely. President Truman decided to recognize them to assuaged America guilt for the late entry into WWII. The Holocaust horrors made many sympathize with the idea of a Jewish homeland at the expense of the Palestinians.
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Old 02-26-2004, 05:10 PM   #8
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Actually, before Israel was founded 3 undergrounds took place Ė the main one (ďHa`aganaĒ) bombed constructions when no one was in them and had a very strong stand against hurting civilians. This underground belonged to what was then the non-military related organization that gathered every important institution excited in the Jewish life in Israel. Those institutions later reformed as the official ones of the state (such as the Knesset that than had a form of an assembly, which her leader was Ben-Gurion, who later became the first prime minister of Israel).

And there were other two underground organizations that didnít consider themselves as part of the Ďmainstreamí (for want of a better word...). They were much much more smaller and didnít follow any instructions given. The first one, ďHa`etzelĒ, held terror attacks against civilians. The second one, ďHa`lechiĒ, believed that the true enemy of the Jews in Israel back then were not the Arabs, but the British. They held terror attacks against the British officials in Israel.

The `Hagana` and the leaders of the Jews in Israel were against those two organizations, and once even gave information about them to the British whom of course persuaded them all along.

This is as far for the Jewish underground, in a very superficial manner.
-------
The founders did declare Israel as a state prematurely, although following a UN decision to form the state of Israel. The day after this declaration a war started (once in every decade since this country was founded, it seems to be some kind of an unwritten law) - the Arab states surrounding Israel invaded the country. A seize fire took place at a certain stage. At this point, the territory that is now known as the west bank was in the hands of Jordan. The Gaza strip was in the hands of Egypt. Itís only during the six days war in 1967 that Israel occupied those lands. In 1987 began the first `intifada`. The Palestinians in those lands demanded that the occupation would stop.

And so they lived happily ever after......
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Old 02-26-2004, 05:19 PM   #9
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I do not care who started it, i only know that they will not have peace without the help of a UN intervention. But a security wall for israel people on palestine ground won`t help either.
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Old 02-26-2004, 05:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rono
I do not care who started it, i only know that they will not have peace without the help of a UN intervention.
I didnít mean to point any fingers, honest. I only stated some facts fore someone who asked.

I donít really agree that a UN intervention will do much help either. No one can be the superhero coming for the rescue in this case. Only the to parties involved can solve this. And for that we need leaders, not politicians. Sadly, there are none here right now.
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Old 02-26-2004, 05:37 PM   #11
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*two*, not *to.
sorry...
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Old 02-26-2004, 06:06 PM   #12
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I think that to this day, we are so busy playing the blame game. There are individuals on both sides that horrify me.

But what is even worse is that this conflict that involves what, 6 million Israeli Jews and 2 million Palestinians is a precipitating event for terrorism in the Middle East and in the West, for mistrust between Arabs and Israel/USA, for the rise of both fundamentalist Zionism (let's recall who assassinated Rabin) and for fundamentalist Islam.

It's like 8 million people are holding the rest of us hostage. I'm sick and tired of all of it. Who owns this piece of land and whose God is the right God, for crying out loud. This conflict has indirectly had terrible consequences for innocent third parties in Israel and elsewhere and it is simply unacceptable. I agree that the UN needs to step in, and the rest of the world needs to work with all the people in the region to find some sort of solution before further escalations.
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Old 02-27-2004, 05:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
It's like 8 million people are holding the rest of us hostage.
The Israeli - Palestinian conflict may always be in the news, but thatís not something that keeps the whole world hostage.
Al-queada and its terrorism got very little to do with this conflict. Itís about interpreting the Islam in a very twisted manner, going out against the values that the whole west represents.

And about a third party stepping in, it simply wonít work. Israel doesnít trust the UN, and the Palestinians donít trust the American government. I realize that I sound extremely pessimistic, but this conflict will continue for several more years at least. There is so much hatred between the two parties, so much mistrust, and so much despair that I really find it hard to see an end to it all sometimes soon.
Maybe the next elections will bring with them someone who can actually lead.
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Old 02-27-2004, 07:23 AM   #14
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As long as the palestinians are forced to play into the victim role by the power brokers in the arab world who are more interested in preserving their own postitions by directing their peoples anger towards Israel than actually working to alleviate and resolve the fundamental issue of a viable two state solution we WILL NOT SEE an end to the conflict. Israel made a huge mistake when it didnt work harder with Mahmoud Abbas in negotiating removal of settlements, if the current unilateral action was taken earlier only as a negotiated operation the situation may have moved forward. Since it hasn't perhaps we will just have to wait for leaders without so much baggage to come to power before those critical steps can be taken.
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Old 03-02-2004, 03:31 PM   #15
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Israel settlement building rises despite "road map"

By Matt Spetalnick

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel's building in Jewish settlements rose 35 percent last year despite a U.S.-led peace plan with Palestinians that calls for a freeze in construction on occupied land, government figures showed on Tuesday.

Israel reported that work began on about 1,850 new settler homes in the West Bank and Gaza Strip in 2003, a trend that could complicate Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's bid for U.S. approval for his unilateral "disengagement" plan.

Hassan Abu Libdeh, spokesman for Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qurie, said settlement expansion showed Israel's lack of commitment to the U.S.-backed "road map" and what he described as "U.S. bias (in favour of) this Israeli government".

The latest evidence of continued settlement expansion followed signs from Washington on Monday, after a round of U.S.-Israeli talks, that the White House was moving toward agreeing to Sharon's controversial plan.

The right-wing prime minister's initiative calls for uprooting settlements in Gaza plus removing several more in the West Bank and then drawing a "security line" that would leave Palestinians with less land than they seek for a state.

The United States late last year signalled its displeasure with Israeli settlement building as well as the route of its West Bank barrier by deducting nearly $290 million from a $9 billion package of loan guarantees to the Jewish state.

Over the past year, Israel has kept up building of settler homes and apartments in defiance of the road map, now stalled by violence, that calls for a freeze in such construction.

Israel says it has the right to build in settlements to accommodate "natural growth". Settler home-building in 2003 far outstripped Israel's overall rate, which fell eight percent.

"The settlements...are dynamic communities with a much larger growth in population than elsewhere," said Tourism Minister Benny Elon, member of a far-right coalition partner. "Therefore it is natural construction will also grow and grow."

Settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, lands occupied by Israel in the 1967 Middle East war, stand at the heart of the conflict.

More than 220,000 Israelis live in some 150 settlements among three million Palestinians. Most of the international community considers the enclaves illegal. Israel disputes this.
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