New World Order - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-08-2006, 12:59 PM   #1
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 08:58 PM
New World Order

1500 new stores!!! There already operating over 3000 stores. They also bought 60% of Paiz store (Guatemalan version of Walmart) in Guatemala.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=1592155
__________________

__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 01:17 PM   #2
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:58 PM
Should we be so suspicious of success?

What is the issue here?
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 01:26 PM   #3
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,482
Local Time: 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Should we be so suspicious of success?

What is the issue here?


should we let success go unquestioned and unexamined?

do we have an interest in preventing monopolization of a market? is the presence of ologopic control of the market for superprofits a good thing?

is this the paradox of late-capitalisim -- deregulation has actually given us fewer real options, which is to say, that we are presented with a series of false choices, that a singular entity (one that has been deregulated to the position of economic tyranny) determines what you may and may not purchase?
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 02-08-2006, 01:32 PM   #4
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
randhail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Outside Providence
Posts: 3,557
Local Time: 10:58 PM
Thank you Wal Mart for being a main contributor of urban sprawl. America is much better place because of you.
__________________
randhail is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 01:32 PM   #5
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,979
Local Time: 10:58 PM
Success at what price? There are companies like Costco who treat their employees properly and with dignity, and don't nickel and dime them to maximize their profits-and don't engage in other nefarious business practices the way Wal Mart does.

Wal Mart sucks
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 01:36 PM   #6
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Success at what price? There are companies like Costco who treat their employees properly and with dignity, and don't nickel and dime them to maximize their profits-and don't engage in other nefarious business practices the way Wal Mart does.

Wal Mart sucks
Here Here I agree. Wal-Mart Sucks.
__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 01:41 PM   #7
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
should we let success go unquestioned and unexamined?
No, we should examine and duplicate.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
do we have an interest in preventing monopolization of a market? is the presence of ologopic control of the market for superprofits a good thing?
Yes, and we've had controls in place since 1890.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
is this the paradox of late-capitalisim -- deregulation has actually given us fewer real options, which is to say, that we are presented with a series of false choices, that a singular entity (one that has been deregulated to the position of economic tyranny) determines what you may and may not purchase?
We still have choices, including the choice to pay higher prices or lower prices. People tend, to the dismay of unions, to choose lower prices.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 01:42 PM   #8
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 08:58 PM
Here is an intersting article on WalMart.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html
__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 02:07 PM   #9
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,482
Local Time: 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
No, we should examine and duplicate.

so sucess no matter what, no matter the cost? should costs to success not be examined? if it's successful, should a 13 year old Nicaraguan girl be working at $.30 an hour to make your shoes? if using sex to sell my product is successful, shouldn't i then sex it up even more? if my television show gets higher ratings the more violence i show, should i not then show more and more and more violence? after all, the only thing that matters is the bottom line, right?


Quote:
Yes, and we've had controls in place since 1890.


have these regulations been enough to address product selection, treatment of suppliers, competitors, and employees, impact on local communities, and effects on world trade and globalization? or, because we have a bottom line, all other considerations go out the door? have these regulations addressed predatory pricing? are these regulations that have been in place since 1890 not being actively battled by Republicans in Congress and the current administration due to pressure from monopolic corporations like Wal Mart so that we can return to a 19th century model of capitalism with no restrictions on how low minimum wage can go, no limits on the length of the workday, and no weekends? how about Wal Mart employees who cannot get health care? aren't you, the tax payer, just picking up the tab?



Quote:
We still have choices, including the choice to pay higher prices or lower prices. People tend, to the dismay of unions, to choose lower prices. [/B]


wrong. in many ways, offering lower prices actually destroys free choice and, in a less direct way, results in the massive homogenization and blandness of American culture as well as being a blight on the landscape.

the creation of a monopoly actually results in fewer choices, especially when said monopoly refuses to carry certain books, magazines, and other materials deemed offensive to either a majority of the customers, a vocal enough fraction of the customers who complain, or to the management of these companies.

you may not purchase certain Sheryl Crowe album's at Wal Mart, because she criticizes Wal Mart in one of her songs. if your only available retail outlet is Wal Mart -- and in many parts of the country, unless you want to drive miles and miles and miles, it is your only option -- you cannot purchase that album.

Wal Mart also refuses to stock the "morning after pill" -- is this why so many young girls get pregnant in rural america?

want FHM or Maxim? not at Wal Mart.

want to buy "America (The Book)"? not at Wal Mart.

want to buy an album with explict lyrics? not at Wal Mart, though many artists are now forced to sanitize their works through pressure from the labels so that their work can be sold at Wal Mart.




but you're right. free enterprise must not be questioned. you know, it's not like it's a debatable topic, like climate change ...
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 02-08-2006, 02:16 PM   #10
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
so sucess no matter what, no matter the cost? should costs to success not be examined? if it's successful, should a 13 year old Nicaraguan girl be working at $.30 an hour to make your shoes? if using sex to sell my product is successful, shouldn't i then sex it up even more? if my television show gets higher ratings the more violence i show, should i not then show more and more and more violence? after all, the only thing that matters is the bottom line, right?
I don't think you could fit any more hyperbole into your reply here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
have these regulations been enough to address product selection, treatment of suppliers, competitors, and employees, impact on local communities, and effects on world trade and globalization? or, because we have a bottom line, all other considerations go out the door? have these regulations addressed predatory pricing? are these regulations that have been in place since 1890 not being actively battled by Republicans in Congress and the current administration due to pressure from monopolic corporations like Wal Mart so that we can return to a 19th century model of capitalism with no restrictions on how low minimum wage can go, no limits on the length of the workday, and no weekends? how about Wal Mart employees who cannot get health care? aren't you, the tax payer, just picking up the tab?
You raised the issue of antitrust - we have controls in place. Now, I am not suprised by another meaningless jab at the Republicans, but just so know, Republicans have increased the pressure on corporations:

Quote:
In June of 2004, President George W. Bush signed into law the Criminal Antitrust Penalty Enhancement and Reform Act, increasing the maximum criminal penalty for individuals to ten years' imprisonment and a $1 million fine, and the maximum penalty for corporations to a $100 million fine.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
wrong. in many ways, offering lower prices actually destroys free choice and, in a less direct way, results in the massive homogenization and blandness of American culture as well as being a blight on the landscape.

the creation of a monopoly actually results in fewer choices, especially when said monopoly refuses to carry certain books, magazines, and other materials deemed offensive to either a majority of the customers, a vocal enough fraction of the customers who complain, or to the management of these companies.

you may not purchase certain Sheryl Crowe album's at Wal Mart, because she criticizes Wal Mart in one of her songs. if your only available retail outlet is Wal Mart -- and in many parts of the country, unless you want to drive miles and miles and miles, it is your only option -- you cannot purchase that album.

Wal Mart also refuses to stock the "morning after pill" -- is this why so many young girls get pregnant in rural america?

want FHM or Maxim? not at Wal Mart.

want to buy "America (The Book)"? not at Wal Mart.

want to buy an album with explict lyrics? not at Wal Mart, though many artists are now forced to sanitize their works through pressure from the labels so that their work can be sold at Wal Mart.
This is getting weak. Not all products are available at Walmart. What store does offer everything you could possibly want. If you want other products, or want to pay higher prices, the market is open to you.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 02:39 PM   #11
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,482
Local Time: 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader

I don't think you could fit any more hyperbole into your reply here.

you could also answer the question.

if we continue to worship the bottom line, is this not where it leads us? is not the increase in sex and violence in the media a direct result of producers following the bottom line? is not pornography a massive industry precisely because it's giving people what they want?


[q]You raised the issue of antitrust - we have controls in place. Now, I am not suprised by another meaningless jab at the Republicans, but just so know, Republicans have increased the pressure on corporations:[/q]


Gramm-Leach-Bliley? the California electricity crisis? Savings and Loan?



Quote:
This is getting weak. Not all products are available at Walmart. What store does offer everything you could possibly want. If you want other products, or want to pay higher prices, the market is open to you. [/B]

is that not Wal Mart's goal? a total monopoly? is this not a logical conclusion to untrammeled capitalism? eventually, someone will be able to provide for all your needs?

though i suppose it's simply easier for you not to respond than to engage in debate.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 02-08-2006, 02:44 PM   #12
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:58 PM
I enjoy engaging in rational discussion and debate.

I'll wait till I see some.

It would be easier to just go along for the ride. You are right - Walmart wants a total monopoly. They are evil. Hate them. It is energizing.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 02:48 PM   #13
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,482
Local Time: 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I enjoy engaging in rational discussion and debate.

I'll wait till I see some.

It would be easier to just go along for the ride. You are right - Walmart wants a total monopoly. They are evil. Hate them. It is energizing.


i posed a million-and-one questions, and you've not answered, nor given a rational response.

i haven't said they're evil. i haven't said i hate them.

in fact, all i've really done is ask questions, very theoretical questions at that. i've put a good deal of thought into some of these questions, and many of them have stayed in my mind after late nights debating these issues with some of my smartest friends who are hard-core capitalists. in fact, the whole "end game of capitalism" isn't my thought at all, but that of a very successful consultant who makes money telling companies to fire people.

but i suppose it's easier to put words in my mouth and thoughts in my head.

it's unlike you to take the easy way out.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 02-08-2006, 02:55 PM   #14
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:58 PM
Take a deep breath.

Suspision of success became "unquestioned and unexamined"

Duplicating success became "sucess no matter what, no matter the cost"

And that was followed by "13 year old Nicaraguan girl be working at $.30 an hour to make your shoes? if using sex to sell my product is successful, shouldn't i then sex it up even more? if my television show gets higher ratings the more violence i show, should i not then show more and more and more violence? after all, the only thing that matters is the bottom line, right?"

You are not simply asking questions. You are using hyberbole to avoid debate. Derail the issues with extremes avoids the basic issue raised by this thread: is there a problem with Walmart opening 1500 new stores.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 03:25 PM   #15
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,482
Local Time: 10:58 PM
[q]Originally posted by nbcrusader
Take a deep breath.[/q]

i'll even ignore the condescention.

[q]Suspision of success became "unquestioned and unexamined"

Duplicating success became "sucess no matter what, no matter the cost"

And that was followed by "13 year old Nicaraguan girl be working at $.30 an hour to make your shoes? if using sex to sell my product is successful, shouldn't i then sex it up even more? if my television show gets higher ratings the more violence i show, should i not then show more and more and more violence? after all, the only thing that matters is the bottom line, right?"[/q]


all pertinent questions. simply because something is sucessful that doesn't mean it is good for us. as someone who goes on and on about sex in the media and it's influence on children, and as someone who remains highly skeptical of environmentalist "dogma" -- two things that i think are indicative of an active, inquisitive mind -- it seems as if these are precisely the questions that should leap to mind whenever free market discussions arise -- is the sucess of Wal Mart a good thing, and should we let the "dogma" of free market capitalism go unquestioned?

Quote:
You are not simply asking questions. You are using hyberbole to avoid debate. Derail the issues with extremes avoids the basic issue raised by this thread: is there a problem with Walmart opening 1500 new stores.


wrong. i am asking questions. these are theoretical questions that arise when you follow your logic further on down the line.

is there a problem with Walmart opening 1500 new stores? i'd say yes -- it brings us further down the road of unfettered markets, and without regulations, and without examination of how one arrives at success and questioning "is this a good thing?", we arrive at a world where Nicaraguan 13 year olds make shoes for $.30 an hour.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com