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Old 10-24-2006, 04:04 PM   #61
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i knew he wouldn't keep me on his ignore list for long.

poor lad.

dbs


sweet pea, i'd never put your adorable mug on an ignore list. you've got me confused with some other poster.

and i'm totally convinced that you're only, at best, 90% hetero.
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Old 10-24-2006, 04:06 PM   #62
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Old 10-24-2006, 05:55 PM   #63
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Here is a Rebutal Ad for the Michael J. Fox one.

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Old 10-24-2006, 06:17 PM   #64
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Old 10-24-2006, 10:49 PM   #65
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How can anyone still believe anything that that drug-addled Rush has to say?
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Old 10-24-2006, 11:53 PM   #66
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Futhermore if there was proven success in embryonic cells in any of the listed maladies I listed above or the thousands that I'd missed, of course I'd would be all for the ethical research and government funding of embryonic stem cell research.

It's quite simple.

I hope this explains my position to you and people like maycocksean.



dbs
Care to elaborate on the nature of "people like me"?

Your post sort of explains your position. But it still doesn't address why you would be okay with private companies doing the research. Is it one of those things that, like adultery, is definitely wrong but not wrong enough to outlaw it outright?

And what would qualify as "ethical" research for you? What aspects of current stem cell research are unethical in your mind?
80's mentioned "abortion mills"--I could understand the opposition to that, but aren't most stem cells taken from unused IVF embroyos that will be destroyed anyway?
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Old 10-25-2006, 12:11 AM   #67
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maycocksean,

as i stated before, maybe you missed it, i would be against buying dead embyros from abortion mills, and i would think that would be unethical medical practice. i mentioned it twice already, perhaps you missed it, but it's there in my previous posts in this thread.

until private companies (who are better at research in my estimation than public ones, in initial stages) prove success with embyronic cells than i would be all for public funding of this research, as long as it remained ethical.

i sense youre trying to pick a fight and i'm not going to be baited
into that action.

i've been here half a decade and it becomes easy to read ppl in this forum.

that said, let me know if i'm wrong.

good day,

dbs
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Old 10-25-2006, 12:26 AM   #68
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until private companies (who are better at research in my estimation than public ones, in initial stages)
Here is a perfect example of how you are misinformed. Thank you for providing it.

Having worked in this area for years, I can tell you that it is very common for the private sector to dump money to public sector research institutes (independent and university affiliated) to do the initial research. I have worked on such projects on many occasions, and we would do the preliminary studies before the private entities took over but only AFTER we were able to show that there was some promise in some protocol we were doing. There are many reasons for this, some of it has to do with the fact that academic research is far better suited to the initial optimization of experiments, there is more collaboration in academia than in the private sector and more public labs have access to restricted substances and/or viruses (biohazard clearance is tightly regulated and not uncommon to have only a handful - or even just one or two - level IV clearance areas in a country and you can bet your ass they're not at a private corporation!).

I have no idea where your "estimation" comes from, but it's dead wrong.
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Old 10-25-2006, 12:47 AM   #69
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martina,

I believe you hail from Canada, not the USA, correct?

And you're an expert on private research in my country?

didn't think so.

thank you very much.

good evening,

dbs
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Old 10-25-2006, 12:50 AM   #70
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My PI was American. Most of our funding was from American private companies, LOL. Biohazard clearance works almost identically in your country - check with the CDC and NIH if you wish.

Go on being wilfully blind, indignant and ignorant, diamond.

Just don't expect others not to call you on it.
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Old 10-25-2006, 02:44 AM   #71
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Here is a Rebutal Ad for the Michael J. Fox one.

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Old 10-25-2006, 04:44 AM   #72
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I don't know who any of those people are (with the except of Patricia Heaton who I saw on the Hill when she was speaking about stem cell research a few years ago and I was working on the issue), but what kind of connections do they have to this issue?
Jeff Suppan is a pitcher for the St. Louis Cardinals (baseball)

Kurt Warner is a former quarterback for the St. Louis Rams (football)

and Mike Sweeney is a player for the Kansas City Royals (baseball (kind of))

they are all sports "celebrities" in Missouri, and are all quite religious, so I'm guessing that's why they decided to do the ad to counter the Fox one.
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Old 10-25-2006, 06:09 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

i sense youre trying to pick a fight and i'm not going to be baited
into that action.

i've been here half a decade and it becomes easy to read ppl in this forum.

that said, let me know if i'm wrong.

good day,

dbs
Diamond,

I'm not trying to pick a fight and I apologize if I've been perceived to be doing so.

The "people like me" comment was half joking, but really also half serious, especially in light of your stated ability to read people on this forum. I am genuinely curious as to exactly what you perceive me to be like.

I can tell you, and I'm sure you can attest to this, that I usually try to avoid getting into snappy reparte with people here on FYM. I'm not sure why I've wandered into that territory on this particular thread--perhaps because there seems to be a lot of it going around, I don't know. But I certainly mean no offense. It seems like a lot of the digs in your direction from other posters have been much more severe than anything I've had to say. Perhaps that is a privelage reserved people who've been on the forum for many years?
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Old 10-25-2006, 06:33 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

as i stated before, maybe you missed it, i would be against buying dead embyros from abortion mills, and i would think that would be unethical medical practice. i mentioned it twice already, perhaps you missed it, but it's there in my previous posts in this thread.
I just went through your posts again on this thread and I assume you mean this:

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
or any other host of diabilitating diseases or conditions were to be cured by embryonic stem cell research I would be for harvesting embyros who were killed by miscarriage, or thru an accidental death of the embyro.
and this

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
but even my father always taught us about the sacnity of innocent life, that it was sacred and even he would recoil at the thought of unethical embryonic stem cell research; you see there is a difference; if there is a naturally aborted embyro or and embyro who's mother has died, then i think this would be appropiate situation for research and hopefully cure these blasted deseases.

My apologies, I was quoting you, not 80s when I mentioned the abortion mills.

Let me see if I understand you correctly:

Ethical research is research that does not use aborted embryos, correct? If so, then again I ask, aren't most of the embryos being used coming from embryos that were not used in IVF and are going to be destroyed anyway? Wouldn't that meet your standard of ethics? Or, in fact, are most embryos coming from abortion clinics? Understand, I don't know a whole lot about this subject so these are honests requests for information, not "bait."


Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
until private companies (who are better at research in my estimation than public ones, in initial stages) prove success with embyronic cells than i would be all for public funding of this research, as long as it remained ethical.
And let me ask again, why you would be okay with private companies doing the research. Is it one of those things that, like adultery, is definitely wrong but not wrong enough to outlaw it outright? Assuming of course that they are using embryos from abortion mills.
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Old 10-25-2006, 08:58 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean

aren't most of the embryos being used coming from embryos that were not used in IVF and are going to be destroyed anyway?
In my limited knowledge and understanding, yes. But I guess some people feel that it is tantamount to abortion to "kill" those embryos for the purpose of stem cell research. And I guess some people try to use it as some sort of scare tactic, to somehow imply that we will one day be aborting fetuses in order to harvest stem cells.

My way of looking at it is-if those embryos are not going to be used to create a life, what better purpose could they have than to possibly save other lives and possibly cure disease?

Also Michael J Fox has said that he is opposed to cloning and to egg farming. People are also trying to misrepresent what he supports.
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