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Old 10-24-2006, 10:01 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by BluRmGrl
Well, do we really need to cure diabetes, Parkinson's, AIDS, etc. etc. etc.??? I mean, after all, who cares? We've managed to provide the means for 4-hr hard-ons!!!! Is there any greater medical achievement that we could strive for?

I'm not saying ed isn't a a completely valid and painful issue for men, but let's face it-you can live and exist comparatively well without sex. Some men don't want to believe that , but it is humanly possible. Comparing a life without erections and sex to a life with diabetes and Parkinsons and alzheimers, there's just no comparison-so you do raise an interesting point. It really does make me wonder what would have happened if stem cell research was necessary in the development of drugs for ed . Would Rush give up his Viagra if it had been?
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Old 10-24-2006, 10:09 AM   #47
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Originally posted by melon


I'd be impressed if you actually read it yourself, because then you'd realize that it is a completely illogical notion that adult stem cells would be more robust than embryonic stem cells. Illogical.

But hey...don't let a little logic get in the way of ideology. Why don't we post a picture of a child molester in here while we're at it? You seem to be good at those kinds of responses.

I support research into adult stem cells, as a matter of science, but they still have to do a lot of work with adult stem cells before they can be remotely as viable as embryonic stem cells. There's a reason that scientists have been using those instead of adult ones.

Melon
Melon old chap, I read a great deal of it.

And for whatever reason illogical or not there has been for success with adult stem cells and not embryonic.

Futhermore if there was proven success in embryonic cells in any of the listed maladies I listed above or the thousands that I'd missed, of course I'd would be all for the ethical research and government funding of embryonic stem cell research.

It's quite simple.

I hope this explains my position to you and people like maycocksean.

I'm glad you support the research of adult stem cells, the research that has proven successful.

Don't understand your child molester analogy, nor to I want to try, found it odd actually.

That said I don't understand why as person such as anitram/martina get all worked up by posted data
and make condenscending and sneering remarks.

Good day,

dbs
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Old 10-24-2006, 10:39 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

That said I don't understand why as person such as anitram/martina get all worked up by posted data
and make condenscending and sneering remarks.


diamond i still think you're totally cute and i'd totally hit on you and i bet after a few beers you'd be totally into it, but you've got to see how your posts stand up and demand for condescending and sneering responses, not least of which was a thorough evisceration by our resident scientists-turned-law-student.

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Old 10-24-2006, 01:19 PM   #49
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^ooh I am tempted, must not say anything..unfortunately

And is anyone is "condescending and sneering" diamond it's someone who has to post things like "you exhaust me" and that they have to unblock someone from their ignore list. I hope I'm on it too
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Old 10-24-2006, 02:09 PM   #50
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Hree is some great news on the stem cell research front. I hadn't heard about this until today.

Scientists' breakthrough in Stem cells from human embryos
MIL/Agencies/Independent, Aug 24, 2006. Steve Connor, Science Editor

http://www.internationalreporter.com...ad.php?id=2114

August 24, 2006 - Scientists from a private biotechnology company in the US have generated stem cells from human embryos without destroying the embryos in the process.

The scientists got this breakthrough for the first time. They can now create new stem cell lines and therapies without destroying embryos.

This technology would also address the ethical concerns of majority of people, and allow the generation of matched tissue for children and siblings born from transferred pre - implantation genetic diagnosis (PGD) embryos.

The scientists claim that the breakthrough could overcome the principal moral and ethical objection to using human embryonic stem cells for treating a range of incurable conditions, from heart disease to Parkinson's.

Robert Lanza, the chief scientist at Advanced Cell Technology in Massachusetts, said that his team had generated two continuously dividing "lines" of stem cells from human embryos left over from IVF treatment.

Normally the embryos - which at that early stage consist of a microscopic ball of a few dozen cells - would be destroyed in extracting the stem cells, which are capable of developing into any one of the many specialized tissues of the body.

However, the scientists used a special technique for extracting single cells one at a time from the embryo, leaving the rest undisturbed and capable of developing into a full-term baby.

"It is possible to generate stem cells without destroying the embryo and without destroying its potential for life," Dr Lanza said.

The technique used by the company is similar to the one already used to extract single cells from IVF embryos when they are screened for inherited disorders.

Dr Lanza and his team believe that it will be possible to adapt the existing technique so that stem cells could be almost routinely extracted from human IVF embryos without harming their future health and well-being.
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Old 10-24-2006, 02:22 PM   #51
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So how is this good news for those who oppose due to ethical reasons?

If this embryo is kept "alive" as an embryo in a test tube for say another 50 years does this make you all feel better?
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Old 10-24-2006, 02:29 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
So how is this good news for those who oppose due to ethical reasons?

If this embryo is kept "alive" as an embryo in a test tube for say another 50 years does this make you all feel better?
This part seems good to me:

allow the generation of matched tissue for children and siblings born from transferred pre - implantation genetic diagnosis (PGD) embryos.
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Old 10-24-2006, 02:42 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
^ooh I am tempted, must not say anything..unfortunately

And is anyone is "condescending and sneering" diamond it's someone who has to post things like "you exhaust me" and that they have to unblock someone from their ignore list. I hope I'm on it too
Well you'd be in good company.

And diamond, for the record, it's not the data that has me riled up, it's your lack of comprehension and knowledge on the issue which you then disguise as valid scientific criticism when all it amounts to is talking points from other people.
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Old 10-24-2006, 02:46 PM   #54
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http://a.media.abcnews.com/podcasts/061024rush

What Rush said.
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Old 10-24-2006, 02:54 PM   #55
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Well even if it's true that he does go off his meds for that purpose (if anyone can locate said interviews), what's wrong with that? Don't the meds just hide and mask the reality of Parkinsons? Are we supposed to hide from that reality if it suits our purposes? And it's the actor comment that really is even more disgusting and offensive.

Limbaugh slams Michael J. Fox over ad


Chicago Tribune

October 24, 2006

A political ad in which a Parkinson's-afflicted Michael J. Fox talks about stem cell research was criticized Monday by conservative radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh, who asserted that Fox was "either off his medication or acting" while filming the commercial.

"Michael J. Fox is allowing his illness to be exploited and in the process is shilling for a Democrat politician," Limbaugh said of the ad for Senate candidate Claire McCaskill of Missouri.

Limbaugh later seemed to back off the idea that Fox was acting out symptoms, saying he didn't mean to imply "that one could easily act it out for the purposes of a commercial."

But he also said, "I have gotten a plethora of e-mails from people saying Michael J. Fox has admitted in interviews that he goes off his medication for Parkinson's disease when he appears before Congress or other groups as a means of illustrating the ravages of the disease."

Adrianne Marsh, a spokeswoman for McCaskill, called the attacks by Limbaugh sad.

"It just goes to show what ignorance is out there about diseases like this and others," she said.
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Old 10-24-2006, 03:08 PM   #56
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Here are some comments from someone who looked into Limbaugh's comments / questions:

full article here: http://www.tnr.com/blog/theplank?pid=51219


Fortunately, I have access to this thing called the Internet and this nifty search engine called Google. A few clicks led me to William J. Weiner M.D., professor and chairman of the department of neurology at the University of Maryland Medical Center. He's also director of the Parkinson's clinic there.

Even better, it turns out Dr. Weiner has a phone. When I reached him, he said he'd seen the ad earlier in the day and was fairly surprised to hear about Limbaugh's reaction. Here's why:

"What you are seeing on the video is side effects of the medication. He has to take that medication to sit there and talk to you like that. ... He's not over-dramatizing. ... [Limbaugh] is revealing his ignorance of Parkinson's disease, because people with Parkinson's don't look like that at all when they're not taking their medication. They look stiff, and frozen, and don't move at all. ... People with Parkinson's, when they've had the disease for awhile, are in this bind, where if they don't take any medication, they can be stiff and hardly able to talk. And if they do take their medication, so they can talk, they get all of this movement, like what you see in the ad."

Wiener was careful to disclose that a researcher in his center recently received a grant from the Fox Foundation. But he assured me that he was on solid medical ground. I take him at his word, but I'll try to get some further confirmation later.

In the meantime, Wiener also pointed out something else I hadn't considered: Fox was actually being commendably nuanced in the ad. The actor could have said stem cells will lead to a Parkinson's cure, but he said merely that it gives patients hope -- which is accurate. There's no way to know for sure what stem cells will do for Parkinson's, or other diseases, but they have the potential to do so. The only way to find out for sure is to do the research that Limbaugh and his allies are bent on blocking.
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Old 10-24-2006, 03:19 PM   #57
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i feel bad for michael, make no mistake, i don't care if he is off his meds to make a point.
i was raised by a handicapped parent and lost my mom to cancer when i was 2 and 1/2 years old.

life wasn't easy and knowing what i know now i wished i would have been a little more compassionate to my dad.

but even my father always taught us about the sacnity of innocent life, that it was sacred and even he would recoil at the thought of unethical embryonic stem cell research; you see there is a difference; if there is a naturally aborted embyro or and embyro who's mother has died, then i think this would be appropiate situation for research and hopefully cure these blasted deseases.

in the mean time i think we should keep on rockin w the adult stem cells where has been great success.

if and when success starts happening w embryonic stem cells i am for that as long as it is ethical in the way i listed above. i would recoil if we started buying embryos from abortion mills.

as far as irvine and he's hotness goes, before he even thought about being gay or realized he was gay, i've intermingled w the finest of the fine in the gay life style having grown up in and around that arena, and have turned down much better offers than his feeble one; besides melon's has much more moxie.


martina martina martina, you are one hot scientist.

gina you'll never be on my ignore list.

out-

dbs
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Old 10-24-2006, 03:32 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
as far as irvine and he's hotness goes, before he even thought about being gay or realized he was gay, i've intermingled w the finest of the fine in the gay life style having grown up in and around that arena, and have turned down much better offers than his feeble one; besides melon's has much more moxie.


fine. me and my "life style" are way too bootylicious for you anyway.
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Old 10-24-2006, 03:53 PM   #59
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I'm truly sorry about your parents diamond, and I was taught too about the sanctity of human life-all human life. When and if abortions are performed for the purposes of harvesting stem cells, then I will be vehemently opposed to that. My religion says I should be opposed to it already. But I have many people in my family who have (and who had) diabetes, one who has Alzheimers, and a grandmother who had Parkinsons. And it's not just my family- I hate to see anyone suffer from those diseases, from paralysis, and more. Every thought and instinct I have tell me that I should support any and all hope that all stem cell research can offer-we don't even know for sure what that is yet, so how can we dismiss it? And contrary to what some people might think that doesn't make me an amoral baby killer.

Yes there are people who suffer from those diseases and are still opposed to embryonic stem cell research. I don't understand that, but I respect their right to that opinion and I have to admire someone being that selfless- when I look at it that way.
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Old 10-24-2006, 04:01 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




fine. me and my "life style" are way too bootylicious for you anyway.
i knew he wouldn't keep me on his ignore list for long.

poor lad.

dbs
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