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Old 08-29-2006, 09:35 PM   #31
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Coverups usually try to hide stupidity more than conspiracy.
That too has been a theory of mine involving this incident. Watching the incompetance before 9/11 between the FBI & CIA I would say, yes....this is probably likely to be a truth.

I have read more on the subject Kennedy, his administration, and the assasination than any other topic. I have read books supportin the Warren Commission to books supporting multiple gunmen.

Over the last two years, I have tried to move away from conpiracy about the assasination to learning more about Lee Harvey Oswald. The man was not just a citizen. I have no doubt in my mind that he was an intelligence officer for some country. There are TOO many people who were FBI CIA around him in his life to have not been. When Oswlad defected to Russia, Gary Powers U2 plane got shot down. Oswald was stationed out of the base the U2 planes flew from. When he leaves the service he practically moved right into Russia. The Russians were always suspicious that he was an American agent. He comes back to the US after renouncing his citizenship. On and on....the story continues. But I digress.

This is probably one of the most interesting pieces written about the CIA and how closely they were following Oswald. It is NOT about the assasination. It is about the intelligence community, and routing signatures. Sounds boring I know, but this guy did his homework and with the release of some of the documents in the 90's and the declassification of some retired CIA agents names in 2002, has shown that the CIA had a much bigger interest in the man Oswald, before the President was killed.

It makes a good read, and some of you might enjoy it.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/morley1.htm
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Old 08-30-2006, 02:11 PM   #32
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Hey "Achtung Bono" - you are way too eager to stick to the original lie. "Who cares if there was one shot or 100 shots?"
Hey pal, millions "care". I've said it a thousand times and I'll say it another thousand...Lee Harvey Oswald DID NOT act alone that day. Peroid. Finally science is proving what I've known all my life.
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Old 08-30-2006, 02:48 PM   #33
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U2 Democrat.....When are we going to the Library together!!!!!!!!!
Someday!!
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Old 08-31-2006, 09:01 AM   #34
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Originally posted by Harry Vest
Hey "Achtung Bono" - you are way too eager to stick to the original lie. "Who cares if there was one shot or 100 shots?"
Hey pal, millions "care". I've said it a thousand times and I'll say it another thousand...Lee Harvey Oswald DID NOT act alone that day. Peroid. Finally science is proving what I've known all my life.
Lie?? Why would the Warren Commission lie?? What possible benefit could there be from not telling the facts. Earl Warren was a respected supreme court judge.....why can't you believe him?

Besides, they wouldn't have been so quick to close the case and publish their findings if there were more things to investigate.
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Old 08-31-2006, 01:43 PM   #35
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Read "JFK: The Last Dissenting Witness" by Jean Hill, the woman in the red raincoat who saw the gunman on the grassy knoll. It is a fascinating book.
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Old 08-31-2006, 03:02 PM   #36
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Or watch "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" and you will actually see the figures in the grassy knoll ( a "police officer" and a "railway worker") that are caught in the film from the woman across the street. Absolutely fascinating footage.
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Old 08-31-2006, 08:43 PM   #37
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Originally posted by Harry Vest
Or watch "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" and you will actually see the figures in the grassy knoll ( a "police officer" and a "railway worker") that are caught in the film from the woman across the street. Absolutely fascinating footage.
While I enjoyed this series, there are some MAJOR flaws with the series. I guess the nice thing is they do not subscribe to any one theory. But that almost makes it very muddled.
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Old 08-31-2006, 08:44 PM   #38
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Read "JFK: The Last Dissenting Witness" by Jean Hill, the woman in the red raincoat who saw the gunman on the grassy knoll. It is a fascinating book.
Jean Hill is an interesting person.
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Old 08-31-2006, 08:47 PM   #39
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Originally posted by AchtungBono


Lie?? Why would the Warren Commission lie?? What possible benefit could there be from not telling the facts. Earl Warren was a respected supreme court judge.....why can't you believe him?

Besides, they wouldn't have been so quick to close the case and publish their findings if there were more things to investigate.
the benefit of the lie is this......

If the assassination was an attempt by elements of the US governement to drag the United States into an invasion of Cuba then it most definitely gives a reason for Earl Warren and the other members of the committee to rush to judgement. IN a sense they are heros.

They preserved the government and prevented a war.

What is 100% indesputable is that Lee Harvey Oswald, a defector to Russia, visited the Cuban & Piossibly Russian Embassy weeks before the assassination. His own thoughts and words clearly show that he wanted to go to Cuba.

Did he want to? Was he a patsy? Was he a counterterrorist agent? Was he set up to start a war?
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Old 09-02-2006, 08:26 AM   #40
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Hmmmm...LOL
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Old 09-03-2006, 10:36 AM   #41
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Originally posted by Dreadsox


the benefit of the lie is this......

If the assassination was an attempt by elements of the US governement to drag the United States into an invasion of Cuba then it most definitely gives a reason for Earl Warren and the other members of the committee to rush to judgement. IN a sense they are heros.

They preserved the government and prevented a war.

What is 100% indesputable is that Lee Harvey Oswald, a defector to Russia, visited the Cuban & Piossibly Russian Embassy weeks before the assassination. His own thoughts and words clearly show that he wanted to go to Cuba.

Did he want to? Was he a patsy? Was he a counterterrorist agent? Was he set up to start a war?
I don't understand......what does the assasination of JFK have to do with Cuba? The missile crisis was over by then........
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Old 09-03-2006, 11:23 AM   #42
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Originally posted by AchtungBono


I don't understand......what does the assasination of JFK have to do with Cuba? The missile crisis was over by then........
In a nutshell, it was a priority of the US Governemnt to overthrow Castro. This is not conspiracy theory. This is historical fact.

[Q]The Cuban Project (also known as Operation Mongoose) is the general name for CIA covert operations and plans initiated by President John F. Kennedy on November 30, 1961. The President authorized aggressive covert operations against the communist government of Fidel Castro in Cuba. The operation was led by Air Force General Edward Lansdale and came into being after the failed Bay of Pigs invasion.

The goal of The Cuban Project was to "help Cuba overthrow the Communist regime", including its leader Fidel Castro, and aim "for a revolt which can take place in Cuba by October 1962". American policy makers also desired to see "a new government with which the United States can live in peace." Source: U.S., Department of State, FOREIGN RELATIONS OF THE UNITED STATES 1961-1963, Volume X Cuba, 1961-1962 Washington, DC [2]

It was based on the estimation of the US government that coercion inside Cuba was severe and that the regime was serving as a spearhead for allied communist movements elsewhere in the Americas. There was also evidence that the repressive measures of the communists, together with the seeming failure of the government's socialist economic policies, had resulted in an atmosphere among the Cuban people which made a resistance program a distinct possibility at that moment. As such, the US designed their covert plan to fuel the growing anti-regime spirit to provoke an overthrow of the government and/or assassination attempts on Castro.

The United States Department of Defense Joint Chiefs of Staff saw the project's ultimate objective to be to provide adequate justification for a US military intervention in Cuba. They requested that the Secretary of Defense assign them responsibility for the project, but the Attorney General Robert Kennedy retained effective control.

Over thirty different plans were considered under The Cuban Project, some of which were carried out. The plans varied in their efficacy and intention, from propagandistic purposes to effective disruption of the Cuban government and economy. These included the use of American Green Berets, destruction of Cuban sugar crops, and mining of harbors.

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan, which was signed by the Chairman of the Join Cheifs of Staff and presented to the Secretary of Defense for approval, that intended to use false flag operations in order to justify intervention in Cuba. Among other things considered were real and simulated attacks which would be blamed on the Cuban government. These would have involved attacking, or reporting fake attacks on, Cuban exiles, US military targets, Cuban civilian aircraft, and development of a terror campaign on US soil. [3]

The Cuban Project played a significant role in the events leading up to the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962. The Cuban Project's six-phase schedule was presented by counter-insurgency specialist Air Force General Edward Lansdale on February 20, 1962; it was overseen by AG Robert Kenendy, and President John F. Kennedy was briefed on the operation guidelines on March 16, 1962. Lansdale outlined the coordinated program of political, psychological, military, sabotage, and intelligence operations as well as assassination attempts on key political leaders. Each passing month since his presentation, a different method was in place to destabilize the communist regime, including the publishing of views against Castro, armaments for militant opposition groups, the establishment of guerilla bases throughout the country and preparations for an October military intervention in Cuba. Many individual plans were reportedly devised by the CIA to assassinate Fidel Castro. These plans included using hair removal powder to make Castro's beard fall out, a poisoned wetsuit, the use of exploding cigars and the placing of explosive seashells in Castro's favorite places to go diving.[4]

The Cuban Project was originally designed to culminate in October 1962 with an "open revolt and overthrow of the Communist regime." This was at the peak of the Cuban Missile crisis, where the United States and the Soviet Union came alarmingly close to nuclear war over the presence of Soviet missiles in Cuba. The operation was suspended on October 30, 1962, but three of ten six-man sabotage teams had already been deployed to Cuba. On November 8, 1962, one six-man CIA team blew up a Cuban industrial facility.

The Cuban Project, as with the earlier Bay of Pigs invasion, is widely acknowledged as an American policy failure in Cuba.
[/Q]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cuban_Project
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Old 09-03-2006, 11:26 AM   #43
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Hmmm, the United States looking to committ terror on its own soil to help garnish support for an invasion of Cuba...

[Q]1962 Operation Northwoods
Operation Northwoods or Northwoods was the code name for various proposals for false flag actions, including domestic terror attacks on U.S. soil, proposed in 1962 by senior U.S. Department of Defense leaders to generate U.S. public support for military action against Cuba. The proposal was presented in a document entitled "Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba," a draft memorandum pdf) written by the Department of Defense (DoD) and Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) representative to the Caribbean Survey Group. The draft memo was presented by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13 with one paragraph approved, as a preliminary submission for planning purposes. However, McNamara rejected the proposal. The draft memorandum was declassified in recent years through a Freedom of Information Act request by the National Security Archive.

[/Q]
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Old 09-03-2006, 11:30 AM   #44
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here is a link to the actual declassifies documents that provide evidence that officials within the US governement were proposing terrorist acts on US soil to draw the US into an invasion of Cuba.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20...northwoods.pdf
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Old 09-03-2006, 11:33 AM   #45
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[Q]2. A series of well coordinated incidents will be planned
to take place in and around Guantanamo to give genuine
appearance of being done by hostile Cuban forces.

a. Incidents to establish a credible attack (not in
chronilogical order):

(1) Start rumors (many). Use clandestine radio.

(2) Land friendly Cubans in uniform "over-the-fence"
to stage attack on the base.

(3) Capture Cuban (friendly) sabateurs inside the
base.

(4) Start riots near the entrance to the base (friendly
Cubans).

Appendix to
Enclosure A
7

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Page 11

(5) Blow up ammunition inside the base; start fires.

(6) Burn aircraft on airbase (sabatage).

(7) Lob morter shells from outside of base into base.
Some damage to installations.

(8) Capture assault teams approaching from the sea
of vicinity of Guantanamo City.

(9) Capture militia group which storms the base.

(10) Sabotage ship in harbor; large fires -- napthalene.

(11) Sink ship near harbor entrance. Conduct funerals
for mock-victims (may be lieu of (10)).

b. United States would respond by executing offensive
operations to secure water and power supplies, destroying
artillery and mortar emplacements which threaten the base.

c. Commence large scale United States military operations.

3. A "Remember the Maine" incident could be arranged in
several forms:

a. We could blow up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay and
blame Cuba.

b. We could blow up a drone (unmannded) vessel anywhere
in the Cuban waters. We could arrange to cause such incident
in the vicinity of Havana or Santiago as a spectacular result
of Cuban attack from the air or sea, or both. The presense
of Cuban planes or ships merely investigating the intent of
the vessel could be fairly compelling evidence that the ship
was taken under attack. The nearness to Havana or Santiago
would add credibility especially to those people that might
have heard the blast or have seen the fire. The US could
follow with an air/sea rescue operation covered by US
fighters to "evacuate" remaining members of the non-existant
crew. Casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful
wave of national indignation.

4. We could develop a Communist Cuba terror campaign in
the Miami area, in other Flordia cities and even in Washington.

Appendix to
Enclosure A
8

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Page 12

The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking
haven in the United States. We could sink a boatload of Cubans
enroute to Florida (real or simulated). We could foster attempts
on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the
extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized.
Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots, the
arrest of Cuban agents and the release of prepared documents
substantiating Cuban involvement also would be helpful in
projecting the idea of an irresponsible government.

5. A "Cuban-based, Castro-supported" filibuster could be
simulated against a neighboring Caribbean nation (in the vein
of the 14th of June invasion of the Dominican Republic). We
know that Castro is backing subversive efforts clandestinely
against Haiti, Dominican Republic, Guatemala, and Nicaragua at
present and possible others. These efforts can be magnified and
additional ones contrived for exposure. For example, advantage
can be taken of the sensitivity of the Dominican Air Force to
intrusions within their national air space. "Cuban" B-26 or
C-46 type aircraft could make cane-burning raids at night.
Soviet Bloc incidiaries could be found. This could be coupled
with "Cuban" messages to the Communist underground in the
Dominican Republic and "Cuban" shipments of arms which would
be found, or intercepted, on the beach.

6. Use of MIG type aircraft by US pilots could provide
additional provocation. Harassment of civil air, attacks on
surface shipping and destruction of US military drone aircraft
by MIG type planes would be useful as complementary actions.
An F-86 properly painted would convince air passengers that they
saw a Cuban MIG, especially if the pilot of the transport were
to announce such fact. The primary drawback to this suggestion
appears to be the security risk inherent in obtaining or modify-
ing an aircraft. However, reasonable copies of the MIG could
be purchased from US resources in about three months.

Appendix to
Enclosure A
9

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Page 13

7. Hijacking attempts against civil air and surface craft
should appear to continue as harassing measures condoned by the
government of Cuba. Concurrently, genuine defections of Cuban
civil and military air and surface craft should be encouraged.

8. It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate
convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down
a chartered civil airliner enroute from the United States to
Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would
be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba.
The passengers could be a group of college students off on a
holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to
support chartering a non-scheduled flight.

a. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and
numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered
aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the
Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be
subsituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be
loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under
carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered
aircraft would be converted to a drone.

b. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual
aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of
Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying
aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly
into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will
have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the
aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft
meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When
over Cuba the drone will being transmitting on the inter-
national distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating he
is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission
will be interrupted by the destruction of aircraft which will
be triggered by radio signal. This will allow IACO radio

Appendix to
Enclosure A
10

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Page 14


stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the US what
has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to
"sell" the incident.

9. It is possible to create an incident which will make it
appear that Communist Cuban MIGs have destroyed a USAF aircraft
over international waters in an unprovoked attack.

a. Approximately 4 of 5 F-101 aircraft will be dispatched
in trail from Homestead AFB, Florida, to the vicinity of Cuba.
Their mission will be to reverse course and simulate fakir
aircraft for an air defense exercise in southern Florida.
These aircraft would conduct variations of these flights at
frequent intervals. Crews would be briefed to remain at
least 12 miles off the Cuban coast; however, they would be
required to carry live ammunition in the event that hostile
actions were taken by the Cuban MIGs.

b. On one such flight, a pre-briefed pilot would fly
tail-end Charley at considerable interval between aircraft.
While near the Cuban Island this pilot would broadcast that
he had been jumped by MIGs and was going down. No other
calls would be made. The pilot would then fly directly
west at extremely low altitude and land at a secure base, an
Eglin auxiliary. The aircraft would be met by the proper
people, quickly stored and given a new tail number. The
pilot who had performed the mission under an alias, would
resume his proper identity and return to his normal place
of business. The pilot and aircraft would then have
disappeared.

c. At precisely the same time that the aircraft was
presumably shot down a submarine or small surface craft
would disburse F-101 parts, parachute, etc., at approximately
15 to 20 miles off the Cuban coast and depart. The pilots
retuning to Homestead would have a true story as far as
they knew. Search ships and aircraft could be dispatched
and parts of aircraft found.

[/Q]

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Northwoods.html
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