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Old 06-29-2005, 08:55 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
why must we name everything "Freedom"?
Because French Tower would upset people



The original design was more inspiring. Sticking a massive needle on top of a glass box just to reach 1776 feet lacks something.
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Old 06-29-2005, 08:56 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
The other thing with the new design, I wonder who they're going to get to rent the upper stories? Will anyone want it? I know that a lot of the original Freedom Tower was what some might consider "wasted space," but that was using the mindset that no one would remotely want to rent the upper floors anyway. I'm curious as to why they changed their minds.

Melon
If U2 rent it they can put a nice Vertigo/target logo on their part of the building.
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Old 06-29-2005, 08:56 AM   #33
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freedom tower? Corny
Kinda like freedom fries.
Why must it be enormous?
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Old 06-29-2005, 09:04 AM   #34
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Hmmmm..... It looks Ok but not as good as the original Liebeskind proposal. From what I've been hearing though he's had some trouble with the port authorty's architect and they had to change the building due to safety issues. It's imposing but doesn't really make a statement, have any real visual interest or make me want to see it in the flesh.
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Old 06-29-2005, 09:15 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Because French Tower would upset people


okay, that was pretty funny.
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Old 06-29-2005, 09:20 AM   #36
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Excuse my cynicism...

Considering the amount of hype and publicity surrounding the original competition, and the initial apprehensions of the design community towards participating, the outcome for the Freedom Tower project is nothing more than obvious filler. There seems to be no apparent developed parti (other than an object in a field of objects), and no respect for remembrance precedent (like that of the Vietnam War Memorial and Oklahoma City Federal Building Memorial- two of the more interesting examples of contemplative public repositories). An element of interaction and humility exists within predecessor American memorial sites that is vacant in the depicted renderings, none of which imbue a sense of the ground level, walking treatment... or how the large structure actually complements the other World Trade Centre Memorial constructs. OMA and many prominent international firms refused to put any effort in the competition design, because it was a foregone conclusion that the political pressures would dilute the product (an assumption that looks to be accurate).

This building stands to be nothing more than a shameless rip-off of some Daniel Libeskind, Frank Gehry, glass shard, sculptural, phallic lighthouse. If it was commentary or parody of the contemporary skyscraper/city, then maybe the formal gestures would make sense with the overplayed tectonic of torsion. However, there seems to be no layers of meaning to the aesthetic. It's just big and shiny.

In the end, it does not matter what is there. The place itself resonates enough loaded experience that even the most inane of structures would typify the sentiment. It is disappointing that the literal default became the final manifestation, and the end result is simply an exercise in the current fad of torquing the shit out things. Who uses glass anymore? Van der Rohe and Johnson have expired... let's move on.

/rant
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Old 06-29-2005, 09:38 AM   #37
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Extremely boring and uninspiring. But then again most architecture is these days.
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Old 06-29-2005, 09:40 AM   #38
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Just the mainstream stuff.

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Old 06-29-2005, 09:46 AM   #39
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I still remember the first townhouse development I ever saw
Then i realized I was going to be living in it
I was like, whats with all the things sticking out of the sides of the houses?
Ahhh, bay windows you say

french tower
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Old 06-29-2005, 09:53 AM   #40
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Very intersting, but the current design does not torque.

Cujo - you must be either an architect, architectural student, professor or other position in the field - no one else speaks that way.

I am curious about your "Who uses glass anymore" statement. What did you mean by that. Most current architectural projects use glass as a main medium, and even are pushing the limits as to what glass and curtainwall systems can do.

As I may agree with some of your statements, you have to understand the massive constraints and expectations this structure has to accomodate. Security-wise there are very few things that are do-able on that specific site, yet the expectation is for the building to be the biggest, best thing that has ever graced New York, quite a catch-22.

I enjoyed your commentary.
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Old 06-29-2005, 10:18 AM   #41
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Verbosity comes with the territory.



Quote:
Originally posted by ouizy
Very intersting, but the current design does not torque.
That's the saddest thing of all. It's a neutered and flattened version of the reference visual... simliar to how the exposure of trusses and mechanical structure in Walmart is the pedestrian version of the Pompidou Centre.

Quote:
I am curious about your "Who uses glass anymore" statement. What did you mean by that. Most current architectural projects use glass as a main medium, and even are pushing the limits as to what glass and curtainwall systems can do.
Indeed. I was rather vague with my statement there. Glass has always been the major accent piece for commercial skyscraper buildings, but the manner of its usage seems to be perpetuating an old language from another time. Sure the material is important for natural lighting, creature comfort, the open plan, and ideas of transparency, but there are examples of heroically tall buidlings that have used other characters to define their presence (i.e. Deco pieces like the Chrysler Building, and early Modernist works by Sullivan and Wright). I guess I was criticizing the lack of current innovative works with glass (from both a sustainability and design perspective)... other than folks, like Koolhaas, find different avenues for glass through a temporary inversion of the relationship between solid and void (see Seattle Library, similar to Van der Rohe's approach in some ways). The new CCTV Tower in Beijing will hopefully serve as both a testament to OMA's work with glass and the development of a different skyscraper typology.

Quote:
As I may agree with some of your statements, you have to understand the massive constraints and expectations this structure has to accomodate. Security-wise there are very few things that are do-able on that specific site, yet the expectation is for the building to be the biggest, best thing that has ever graced New York, quite a catch-22.
There are horrible constraints, and in that regard I don't envy the clients or designers in the least. I was critiquing strictly from a design perspective (granted, the political and security climate is a design consideration). I suppose I was just looking for something more. There's no contesting that this Freedom Tower will attract visitors, but I think that is more a product of spectacle and location... as opposed to architectural merit.

I quite enjoyed your feedback. I prefer to maintain some anonymity, but if you're curious to know what I do, email at your leisure... trebek@gmail.com.



Edited to make sense... to someone I hope.
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Old 06-29-2005, 01:56 PM   #42
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can i add to the stupidity

Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4 on 9/10/2001
ha ha.

I wonder if your dad actually knows any real live Muslims. Newsflash...they're people too and they're not all terrorists. Last time I checked my boyfriend wasn't a bastard or a terrorist.
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Old 06-29-2005, 01:59 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
why must we name everything "Freedom"?


.
yeah,

let's call it the

"George W Bush - Bring it on! Tower"
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Old 06-29-2005, 02:24 PM   #44
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Cujo, thanks for posting.
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Old 06-29-2005, 02:43 PM   #45
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Sticks out like a sore thumb in the rest of the skyline.
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