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Old 02-22-2007, 02:51 PM   #31
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Originally posted by MrPryck2U
Bottom Line: The new footage sucks! The footage that Dread has is way better. Don't waste your time with the new footage.
I never said the new footage sucks.

For people like myself the new footage is awesome.

It shows clearly the elevated back of the coat which would explain why so many questioned how the bullet hole could be so low on the clothing.

One of THE MOST controversial aspects of the Warren Commission written description of the rear entry wound on the President's body. The original report had the accurate description. The published report was not accurate and was changed to make the single bullet theory work.

The other piece of evidence that cuased controversy were the autopsy photos. Why didn't they match the wounds on the clothes the President was wearing? The answer to that question is now solved. The clothes were clearly bunched up and not in line. Because of the controversy, many people felt the autopsy photos were faked. This would prove they were not faked.

I wonder WHY there is video footage that has not been released by the governement. Does this evidence bolster the single assasin theory? Does it hurt it?

I wonder who else has photos that have not been shared....
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Old 02-22-2007, 07:10 PM   #32
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I know absolutely nothing about this, I've heard that there was controversy but never over what or what the issues were, and just by watching the video link that Dread posted, it's quite clear that he was shot (when his head was down and his wife looked over), and then shot again. I don't know angles or who did what, but he was shot twice.
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Old 02-22-2007, 08:54 PM   #33
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Originally posted by phillyfan26
I know absolutely nothing about this, I've heard that there was controversy but never over what or what the issues were, and just by watching the video link that Dread posted, it's quite clear that he was shot (when his head was down and his wife looked over), and then shot again. I don't know angles or who did what, but he was shot twice.
The other interesting thing about the shots is that the first bullet that hits Kennedy is allegedly the same bullet that causes MULTIPLE wounds to the Governor seated in front of Kennedy.

The Magic Bullet: Critics say it was impossible for just one bullet to pass through both Kennedy and Connolly unless it pursued a bizarre zig-zag trajectory. Furthermore, the bullet emerged in good condition.


Three-dimensional graphics of Dealey Plaza, produced by a company called Failure Analysis Associates on behalf of the American Bar Association, showed that a single bullet could inflict all seven wounds on both President Kennedy and Governor Connelly. By feeding data into a computer, it was possible to model the trajectory of the so-called "magic bullet," showing how a straight line through the two men was indeed possible. The computer modeling also showed where the gunman had to shoot from: a cone splayed out from the wound shows that the area almost centers on the southeast corner, sixth floor, Texas School Book Depository. (The technique of modern computer modeling, combined with film enhancement technology, was not available to earlier investigators.)

A single bullet could inflict all seven wounds on both the President and the Governor and emerge in very good condition. That's because, as it slowed, moving through the two men, it moved fast enough to break bone, but not fast enough to deform the bullet. Tests were conducted by both the Warren Commission and the House Select Committee that supported this conclusion.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ld/conspiracy/
However.....

If you examine and watch John Connoly's reactions....he does not look like a man who just had six injuries caused after the President is clutching his neck.

This bullet....


That fell out of the Governor onto the stretcher at Parkland hospital.....supposedly.....


Shattered bones ect.....

Did the Governor get hit from the same bullet, or another shot? For a man who was allegedly hit with the same bullet as Kennedy, he held onto his hat with a shattered wrist for a long time.
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Old 02-22-2007, 09:20 PM   #34
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The initial draft of the report stated:
"A bullet had entered his back at a point slightly above
the shoulder to the right of the spine."

Ford wanted it to read:
"A bullet had entered the back of his neck slightly to the right of the spine."

Justin's film certainly helps the cause of determining how the bullet holes were so low on the clothing.
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Old 02-22-2007, 09:50 PM   #35
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A just saw the 3D animation of the event on the History Channel last weekend.

It actually does seem that the gov makes a sudden move to his right at the same time Kennedy is hit with the first bullet.

They also showed the model from Oswald's POV - the bullets trace perfectly back to his window.


After years of believing there was a conspiracy, I'm starting to think there wasn't one.
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Old 02-22-2007, 10:12 PM   #36
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Originally posted by AEON
A just saw the 3D animation of the event on the History Channel last weekend.

It actually does seem that the gov makes a sudden move to his right at the same time Kennedy is hit with the first bullet.

They also showed the model from Oswald's POV - the bullets trace perfectly back to his window.


After years of believing there was a conspiracy, I'm starting to think there wasn't one.
What you describe would be impossible. Kennedy was hit behind the sign. There is no footage that I know of that shows such a thing. Zapruder was blocked when the first shot hit.

The DalTex building would also trace back fine. I saw the history channel show too, but I just do not buy it.

If Connoly was hit at that time, how did he hold onto the hat?

BTW....I have a theory that if Oswald was a lone assasin he was trying to kill Connoly, not Kennedy.

Connoly was the Secretary of the Navy when Oswald was dishonrably discharged.
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Old 02-22-2007, 10:17 PM   #37
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Originally posted by Dreadsox


What you describe would be impossible. Kennedy was hit behind the sign. There is no footage that I know of that shows a slight movement.

The DalTex building would also trace back fine. I saw the history channel show too, but I just do not buy it.
Fair enough. But doesn't it appear that Kennedy's shirt seems to blow out just as his figure emerges from the sign?
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Old 02-22-2007, 10:41 PM   #38
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So Dread, knowing that this is something you've always been fascinated with, what is your current view of what happened? Has any part of your theory changed with this new video?
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Old 02-22-2007, 11:01 PM   #39
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Dread, I never said that you said that the new footage sucks.
I said that the new footage sucks. The footage that you supplied was better.
One gunman, two gunmen or three gunmen, either way, JFK is , sadly, still dead. I believe there were 2 gunmen. Oswald and someone else. That's my 2 bits.
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Old 02-22-2007, 11:05 PM   #40
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On frame 224 the govs face suddenly contorts.
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Old 02-23-2007, 06:05 AM   #41
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Originally posted by phanan
So Dread, knowing that this is something you've always been fascinated with, what is your current view of what happened? Has any part of your theory changed with this new video?
The one thing I think most assasination buffs will tell you is to focus on one area of the assasination because there are so many tangents. I am not one to focus on much of the physical evidence, there are people who do. I think because of my love of history I am into the people and the story.

I do not believe we know who Lee Harvey Oswald was. When I first became interested with the assasination, I read everything I could. I am at two places with my thoughts, one, that he really was a lone nut gunman and two that he really was working for the intelligence service of the US Government and was indeed a patsy.

The lone nut gunman is hard to accept. We know that Oswald was involved with an attempted assassination of General Edwin Walker months before the Kennedy Assasination. We know the rifle was used in this attempt. What I find interesting is that Oswald the day he attempted this, left all kinds of information for his wife should he have been captured, killed ect. There is no evidence, to my knowledge that he repeated this pattern the day of the Kennedy Assasination.

Oswald was stationed in Japan at a top secret U2 base. He was smart enough to learn Russian, although there is no evidence he received training from the military in speaking Russian, there are witnesses who claim he was being trained by the government to defect to the USSR and become a spy. While in the Marines, at a the U2 base, he openly professed to being a marxist. He was sent home to take care of his mother, but instead, defected to the USSR. His discharge became dishonorable. He was able to defect to the USSR and within months the U2 plane flown by Gary Powers out of the base he was stationed was shot down.

Oswald lived in Russia. He was given a job and married Marina (related to KGB Colonel?) He takes steps to return home with his wife, angry that the communism in Russia was not what it was cracked up to be. He is somehow able to return to the US.

When he returns home, the Bay of Pigs incident has cause Kennedy to rein in the CIA. There have been secret US plans to kill Castro in conjunction with the Mafia that have not worked(Operation Mongoose). There are bases all through the south of people training to invade and kill Castro. Kennedy begins to put a stop to it.

Strangely enough there is evidence of Oswald continuing his pro castro activities while at the same time there is testimony of people who are anti-castro claiming that Oswald was attempting to infiltrate their organizations which suddenly were no longer being helped by the government. Why would Oswald be doing both? There is no doubt that he was demonstrating his pro-cuban beliefs. He was arrested for disturbing the peace in New Orleans. The leaflets he was handing out had an address shared by David Ferrie & Guy Bannister (retired FBI)(Both known associates of New Orleans Mob Boss Carlos Marcello and both known anti-castro supporters). D. Ferrie, sadly has been characterized as a fruit cake by Oliver Stone. I believe Ferrie was a key to solving this crime. He claimed he did not know Oswald, but there is evidence they were in the Civil Air Patrol unit together.

Oswald prior to moving to New Orleans becomes friends with George S. De Mohrenschildt, a man with intelligence ties to the CIA. They become BEST friends. George S. De Mohrenschildt openly testifies that he thought he received an oil contract with Hatti because of the information he provided the US governement about Oswald. In 1978 when the House Committee on Assassinations contacts him he contacts GW Bush the Director of the CIA calling on his old friend to get him out of testifying. the historical record shows that GW Personally acknowledges in writing to his aid that he knows George S. De Mohrenschildt. George S. De Mohrenschildt kills himself 24 hours before he is supposed to testify. GW Bush's phone number is in his wallet.

Ferrie, Bannister, George S. De Mohrenschildt all with connections to the FBI, Intelligence services and the Mob. Some of Oswald's service records were destroyed instead of being turned over to the Warren Commission. Why? There are indications that he was being paid money by the FBI/CIA? Why? He met with FBI Agents within weeks of the Assasination WHY? He went to Mexico and attempted to defect to Cuba weeks prior to the assassination...why? Interestingly enough, there apparently were two Oswalds in mexico city at that time. The photographs that the CIA claimed were Oswald taken at the time were not him. Somehow, despite recordings of phone calls Oswald makes, and alleged surveillance he is able to return and kill the President.

There is plenty of evidence that can lead one to believe that Oswald was somehow operating within the intelligence community. I think he may have been working for the FBI. I think he may have been involved in investigatining the pro-castro groups that were started by the CIA and the Mob. I think Oswald may very well have been caught helping infiltrate and shut them down. I think his defection to Russia and his arrest handing out leaflets were cover for him. I think he was undercover, and I think the CIA/Mob group knew he was undercover. I think he was set up by the Cubans and the mob that day.

The government had to keep it quiet. They would not have wanted the relationship with the mob to be public. The Warren Commission had to find Oswald the lone assassin. Oswald allegedly kills a police officer (with mob connections) within an hour of the assassination. The officer is not even patrolling in the area he was assigned. Was Oswald trying to get to a safe house? Was Oswald supposed to be killed by Officer Tippet ending the controversy there? Oswald gets to the movie theater, runs past the ticket booth, prompting the theater to call the police. He is captured. He is never provided a lawyer. He is there for over 24 hours and interrogated. Somehow Jack Ruby is allowed in the police station MULTIPLE times during Oswald's imprisonment. There are multiple photographs of him being there in the 48 hours oswald is held and testimony of people that saw him in the police station. Finally, ruby, a strip club owner, known mob associate, and according to testimony gun runner for cubans in the US does this to Oswald.



So my current theory.....Oswald was the good guy investigating the now illegal operations(once legal but stopped by Kennedy after the Bay of Pigs) was set up to take the fall.

Other evidence that leads me to think this is true. The Nixon Tapes and testimony from his advisors that he was terrified the "Bay of Pigs" thing, code for Kennedy's assasination, would blow up in their faces.

Best I can do for now....other than he was a nut who acted alone.
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Old 02-23-2007, 06:29 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrPryck2U
Dread, I never said that you said that the new footage sucks.
I said that the new footage sucks. The footage that you supplied was better.
One gunman, two gunmen or three gunmen, either way, JFK is , sadly, still dead. I believe there were 2 gunmen. Oswald and someone else. That's my 2 bits.
What exactly sucks about the new footage?
Not enough action?
Doesn't really support conspiracy theories?
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Old 02-23-2007, 07:17 AM   #43
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The reason I find this intersting is it is NEW footage. I wonder how much people have kept over the years that may be important.
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Old 02-23-2007, 08:02 AM   #44
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Very interesting stuff, Dread. Thanks for that.

You really think he acted alone, though? How do you explain the shot into Kennedy's head? It's clearly coming from a different direction.
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Old 02-23-2007, 08:23 AM   #45
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Originally posted by phanan
Very interesting stuff, Dread. Thanks for that.

You really think he acted alone, though? How do you explain the shot into Kennedy's head? It's clearly coming from a different direction.
I am sorry....I am not sure I spoke clearly.

I believe that there were at least two shooters, maybe three. I think he was set up to take the fall.

When viewing the film, take into acount the president had a back brace on that restricted his movements. Take into acount the car is moving forward and accelerating after the head shot. I am not certain what we view is enough to conclude the shot did not come from behind. However, eyewitness testimony putting people behind the fence, a puff of smoke, and police officers running towards the knoll....make me think someone was back there.

The Warren Commission is saying there were three shots. If there were more than three, Oswald did not act alone. There is some evidence that there may have been four shots.

Theory says one of the three missed, two hit.

Could he have acted alone. Yes. I think the withholding of evidence, the sealing of records has caused many conspiracies to arise, yet as more info is revealed, many of the conspiracies get erased. And new ones arise.......

This link is to a site that brings forward some of the more interesting revelations from the documents released after the Oliver Stone movie.

http://history-matters.com/essays/jf...uestions_3.htm

*Clay Shaw was a member of the CIA as Jim Garrison suspected.

*Clay Shaw was involved in a covert operation with E.Howard Hunt of Watergate fame.

*E. Howard Hunt was linked in sworn testimony to Jack Ruby 24 hours before the assasination.

*E. Howard Hunt was involved int he Bay of Pigs

on and on....LOL

Was Oswald in Mexico City?

"The CIA advised that on October 1, 1963, an extremely sensitive source had reported that an individual identified himself as Lee Oswald, who contacted the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City inquiring as to any messages. Special Agents of this Bureau, who have conversed with Oswald in Dallas, Texas, have observed photographs of the individual referred to above, and have listened to a recording of his voice. These special agents are of the opinion that the above-referred-to individual was not Lee Harvey Oswald."

The paragraph shown above comes from an FBI memo sent to both the White House and the Secret Service on November 23, 1963, the day after President Kennedy's assassination. It was a follow-up to a phone call at 10:01 AM, in which Director Hoover informed Lyndon Johnson of the same fact. Lee Harvey Oswald, the alleged assassin of Kennedy held in police custody in Dallas, had been impersonated in phone calls to the Soviet Embassy in Mexio City.
http://history-matters.com/frameup.htm
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