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Old 03-03-2005, 08:18 AM   #76
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


If you are going to argue for legalization of prostitution, please outline the benefits to society of the practice (and not just removal of the risks associated with engaging in illegal behavior) and how they outweigh the harms to society.
i don't think we need to prove the *benefits* to society in order to support the legalization argument. prostitution exists, always has, always will, in every society on this planet. why? that's what we need to be thinking about. forget benefits, forget fulfilling career choices--in order for us to make any progress we need to look at why prostitution is a universal constant.

in a nutshell: demand. which isn't going away, no matter how hard we try to legislate against it. we need to find ways to accomodate this reality with the fact that prostitutes are human beings with dignity and feelings, who deserve to be treated with the same respect as everyone else.

burying our heads in the sand and hoping it will go away clearly is not a viable solution. it only makes things worse.
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Old 03-03-2005, 08:26 AM   #77
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


So, if we can't all decide on what's right or wrong, we should let it happen?

If you are going to argue for legalization of prostitution, please outline the benefits to society of the practice (and not just removal of the risks associated with engaging in illegal behavior) and how they outweigh the harms to society.

let's filp the question on it's head -- what are the harms to society caused by prostitution, independing of the crime that surrounds any illegal profession, like drug dealing.

i'd say that the benefits to society would be the removal of precisely these negative elements -- drugs, disease, the fact that you'd put a lot of pimps, who tend to be terrible people involved in all sorts of other illegal activities, out of business.
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Old 03-03-2005, 08:39 AM   #78
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
So, if we can't all decide on what's right or wrong, we should let it happen?
As long as nobody's being hurt or killed through this process (which would be less likely to happen if it were legalized), I'd say yeah, we should just let them go on and do what they please. Again, you most certainly do not have to like what they do, you may personally find it immoral or wrong or whatever, but as long as they aren't hurting anybody else, and as long as nobody's being killed, I don't understand why they can't have the right to do what they want to do.

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
If you are going to argue for legalization of prostitution, please outline the benefits to society of the practice (and not just removal of the risks associated with engaging in illegal behavior) and how they outweigh the harms to society.
As Irvine said, can you first explain what possible harm could come to society by allowing prostitution to be legal? 'Cause as of now, I'm not seeing any-if it were legal, and the adults were consenting, and they didn't have diseases, and so on and so forth, it'd basically just be two people going off and having sex for the fun of it...how exactly does that affect me or you or Mr. and Mrs. Smith in Kentucky in any negative fashion? I wouldn't even know anyone was doing that unless they were to tell me for some reason or other, so I'm just wondering where the harm comes in.

And Irvine already covered the benefits to society that would come from this, so...

Angela
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Old 03-03-2005, 08:55 AM   #79
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I guess we won't get this resolved.

One side sees harm, the other side doesn't.

And the benefits, other than reducing what is enhanced by its illegal status, is unknown.
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Old 03-03-2005, 09:17 AM   #80
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
I guess we won't get this resolved.

One side sees harm, the other side doesn't.

And the benefits, other than reducing what is enhanced by its illegal status, is unknown.

you've yet to say what the harm in prostitution is.

could you explicate?
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Old 03-03-2005, 09:54 AM   #81
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Actually, I confirmed one of the harm you recognized: specifically the impact on existing relationships when one party decides to purchase sex outside the relationship.


Prostitution inherently affects the way sexual relations are viewed by the participants. Instead of a physical expression of a relationship, it is reduced to a physical act that can be purchased. It would be ridiculous to think that this would not affect a subsequent relationship.

The expectations of individuals is altered when there is a "market value" for an act. And I would suggest that it is harmful to the development of a loving relationship when one party can say "well, if you won't do it, I can buy it for $X on the street".

I would also suggest that a women engaged in prostitution will have a more difficult time developing a loving sexual relationship based on the prior experiences.
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Old 03-03-2005, 10:03 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Actually, I confirmed one of the harm you recognized: specifically the impact on existing relationships when one party decides to purchase sex outside the relationship.


Prostitution inherently affects the way sexual relations are viewed by the participants. Instead of a physical expression of a relationship, it is reduced to a physical act that can be purchased. It would be ridiculous to think that this would not affect a subsequent relationship.

The expectations of individuals is altered when there is a "market value" for an act. And I would suggest that it is harmful to the development of a loving relationship when one party can say "well, if you won't do it, I can buy it for $X on the street".

I would also suggest that a women engaged in prostitution will have a more difficult time developing a loving sexual relationship based on the prior experiences.

the only point that has any resonance for me is the last one. the others are a product of how you might understand sex and it's function. but what about people who are not in a relationship and there is no signficant other that might be harmed by a visit to the prosititute? where's the damage there?

i think if you could prove that prostititution is emotionally damaging for the prostitute, that might be the most compelling case. it might be argued that the damage comes not from a sexual transaction, but the engagement in an illegal activity. are strippers damaged by their professions?
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Old 03-03-2005, 01:14 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Actually, I confirmed one of the harm you recognized: specifically the impact on existing relationships when one party decides to purchase sex outside the relationship.

Prostitution inherently affects the way sexual relations are viewed by the participants. Instead of a physical expression of a relationship, it is reduced to a physical act that can be purchased. It would be ridiculous to think that this would not affect a subsequent relationship.

The expectations of individuals is altered when there is a "market value" for an act. And I would suggest that it is harmful to the development of a loving relationship when one party can say "well, if you won't do it, I can buy it for $X on the street".
That's still something that each couple personally has to deal with on their own-that still isn't something that's damaging to society as a whole, as not everyone in this society intends on getting involved with prostitutes or being a prostitute themselves. And while it may certainly affect some relationships, there are always exceptions to the rule-they may not be very common, but they're there.

Also, yet again, I must ditto Irvine's post.

Angela
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Old 03-03-2005, 01:24 PM   #84
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i think it can also be said that visiting a regulated prostitution might be beneficial for some marriages.

let's say, for example, a man and woman are married and have kids and love each other very much. let's say that the woman has lost interest in sex (sorry to dig up a cliche, but it fits) and her husband is as randy as ever, and his right hand isn't cutting it anymore.

might it be possible that the purchasing of a session with the prostitute is the best thing to continue the longevity of the marriage? might it be a much better alternative than infidelity with another woman? at least with a prostitute, the transaction is clear and understood, there's no worry of emotion and attachment getting in the way and possibly having a deleterous effect upon the marriagea
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Old 03-03-2005, 01:46 PM   #85
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that still isn't something that's damaging to society as a whole,
On what basis do you say this? If something affects hundreds of thousands of couples (very conservative estimate), how can it have no impact on society as a whole??
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Old 03-03-2005, 01:49 PM   #86
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On what basis do you say this? If something affects hundreds of thousands of couples (very conservative estimate), how can it have no impact on society as a whole??

is the problem the prostitute, prostitution, or a cheating John?

and how do we know what kind of effect this is, and if it's any worse than other legal activities (say, gambling).
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Old 03-03-2005, 01:54 PM   #87
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i think if you could prove that prostititution is emotionally damaging for the prostitute, that might be the most compelling case. it might be argued that the damage comes not from a sexual transaction, but the engagement in an illegal activity. are strippers damaged by their professions?
Excellent example. What are the negative impacts on women who perform as strippers (fully legal)?

Night after night being objectified by men. I can't imagine that is healthy in the long run.

Women may choose this profession, but I'm sure they choose it for the money - not the consequences.
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Old 03-03-2005, 01:58 PM   #88
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is the problem the prostitute, prostitution, or a cheating John?
There may be sub problems for the prostitute and the John, but we've been looking at problems created by prostetution as a whole.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
and how do we know what kind of effect this is, and if it's any worse than other legal activities (say, gambling).
We can tackle gambling in a different thread
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Old 03-03-2005, 01:58 PM   #89
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


On what basis do you say this? If something affects hundreds of thousands of couples (very conservative estimate), how can it have no impact on society as a whole??


When the topic is gun control you want to hold the person accountable for their behavior


You seem to be letting the cheating spouse off the hook.
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Old 03-03-2005, 02:02 PM   #90
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When the topic is gun control you want to hold the person accountable for their behavior


You seem to be letting the cheating spouse off the hook.
Not at all.


You want to punish people for adultery?
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