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Old 03-02-2005, 11:53 AM   #61
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


I think this would be an excellent topic for a different thread. First, you would have to define "morality" as many of our laws define rights and wrongs.

I think we are defining the same process different ways. A government's promotion of morality can be defined as "reducing the suffering of its citizens".

maybe this should go to a different thread, but let me pose the following thoughts:

if prostitution were legalized, would this reduce or increase suffering? and if that's how we define morality, isn't the moral thing to legalize prostitution?

when i speak of morals, and when i define my own morals, i define them exactly how you do in the above post. however, my understanding from Macfisto's comment, specifically when he equated prostitution and pornography and called them immoral, is that he was speaking of a commonly understood conservative morality that seems to apply to the regulation of people's sex lives (and those that perpetuate said morality -- Santorum comes to mind -- appear to be obsessed with the sex lives of consenting adults).

as far as my use of the world "morality," i was using it in the terms by which i had understood it to be defined in this thread; you've broadened the definition, and made it one closer to my own, but i don't see how that applies to the topic and the terms of the topic currently at hand.

the morality of feeding the poor, say, speaks to me.

the morality of prostitution, i simply don't care about.
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Old 03-02-2005, 01:40 PM   #62
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I guess there would be a better argument for legalizing prostitution if a convincing number of prostitutes said they led fulfilling lives in the profession.
I can think of a lot of professions where the majority of the employees say they don't lead fulfilling lives.
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Old 03-02-2005, 02:00 PM   #63
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I must question this - why do you seem to only object to violent crimes? Does morality even matter anymore? How low should we go?

I would like these questions answered, I'm very curious.

Instead of lowering our standards as much as possible, I believe we should discourage the activities with law enforcement, which is the purpose of the executive branch. Don't get me all wrong though, I do think there should be more resources for those who are stuck in prostitution. Perhaps a series of provided jobs under the government would be an option. The government would have expenses on this either way. I want prostitution to remain discouraged, not encouraged.
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Old 03-02-2005, 02:09 PM   #64
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I must question this - why do you seem to only object to violent crimes? Does morality even matter anymore? How low should we go?

I would like these questions answered, I'm very curious.

Instead of lowering our standards as much as possible, I believe we should discourage the activities with law enforcement, which is the purpose of the executive branch. Don't get me all wrong though, I do think there should be more resources for those who are stuck in prostitution. Perhaps a series of provided jobs under the government would be an option. The government would have expenses on this either way. I want prostitution to remain discouraged, not encouraged.
I know this isn't towards me but what I think he's saying is it's not the government's job to enforce morality through law enforcement. It's to protect and provide their citizens.

Why do you only push for some morals to be under the umbrella of law and not others?
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Old 03-02-2005, 04:45 PM   #65
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Why do you only push for some morals to be under the umbrella of law and not others?
The other "moral issues" they take part in and wouldn't want the long arm of the law to catch them or their church members.
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Old 03-02-2005, 04:58 PM   #66
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does morality even matter? good question

the thing about morality is that it is very subjective. the country i live in at the moment is very free about a lot of things (weed, soft drugs, prostitution) and i certainly dont think these people lost their morals.

in the netherlands theyve legalized prostitution and this means safer sex for the prostitutes and their clients.

also, why does the all mighty capitalism let everyone to pursue all kinds of business ventures but not prostitution? no one's hurt? of course, youd say itd help spread of diseases, but if these women were tested regularly and used condoms, would that really be a problem?

i think its time to wake up and smell the coffee. prostitution has been around for thousands of years and its not going away now. who does the prostitutes hurt anyway?

god im so sick of people imposing their morality on others. and they have religion to justify their views, which only supports my view that all religions are useless and should be at the bottom of the ocean.
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Old 03-02-2005, 05:03 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Why do you only push for some morals to be under the umbrella of law and not others?
We shouldn't fall into an "all or nothing" mentality as we have yet to define the "all" for "morality".

But I think it is fair to address each issue independently and determine whether it is morality we should follow.
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Old 03-02-2005, 06:16 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Does morality even matter anymore?
If your answer is 'no', perhaps sex with relatives is something the government has no business legislating against.
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Old 03-02-2005, 06:21 PM   #69
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
If your answer is 'no', perhaps sex with relatives is something the government has no business legislating against.
And is that illegal? Some states marrying them them is legal, so I'm not sure if you have a point there.
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Old 03-02-2005, 09:49 PM   #70
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Just a provocative point. How far should we take it?
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Old 03-02-2005, 10:53 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I must question this - why do you seem to only object to violent crimes?
Because those crimes are ones that harm other people, that endanger their lives and cause problems for the family and friends of the victims as well as the criminals. Those things aren't illegal so much for how moral or immoral they may be as they are for the simple fact that they cause other people physical harm, and people die as a result of a lot of those actions.

But as long as what somebody's doing doesn't have any of those effects, I guess I'm just curious as to why people still feel they have the right to tell them they can't do what makes them happy. You don't have to like their activities, you don't have to agree with their lifestyles, etc., but to tell them to not do what they want to do simply because you don't understand it or agree with it doesn't make sense to me. Especially considering that those that like to tell others how to live their lives would probably hate it if the tables were turned. I personally have no desire to get involved in the whole prostitution thing, but so long as a woman was being safe about it and it was something she wanted to do and all that...who am I to tell her to stop? Why should I tell her to stop?

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Does morality even matter anymore? How low should we go?
Again, though, that's the thing-you consider allowing activities like this to continue on "going low" in terms of society's moral standards. But with other people, maybe they don't see it as "lowering" standards. There are billions of people on this planet, meaning there will always be varying opinions on what is moral and immoral...we will never have a universal agreement on that stuff. Basically, ditto what all_i_want said in regards to the subjective nature of morality.

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I want prostitution to remain discouraged, not encouraged.
And why should we go by what you feel is best? At least by making prostitution legal, we're allowing those who wish to participate in it to do so, and we're not forcing those who don't like it and don't wish to participate in it to do so. But by you saying you want it discouraged, you're trying to push what you want on everyone around you.

Angela
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Old 03-03-2005, 04:13 AM   #72
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Prostitution will NEVER be illegal.

Having worked in one of the top hotels in the United States, if you view it is girls on the streets waiting for Richard Gere to stop in his limo and pic you up you are mistaken.

Prostitution for the rich and famous does not work that way.

Having removed prostitutes from the rooms of guests, having waited at 3:00 AM for their rides to pick them up, I can tell you you are not EVER going to stop it.

But seriously, if you think it is a worthy discussion about it, start another thread.
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Old 03-03-2005, 07:44 AM   #73
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Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel

And why should we go by what you feel is best? At least by making prostitution legal, we're allowing those who wish to participate in it to do so, and we're not forcing those who don't like it and don't wish to participate in it to do so. But by you saying you want it discouraged, you're trying to push what you want on everyone around you.
So, if we can't all decide on what's right or wrong, we should let it happen?

If you are going to argue for legalization of prostitution, please outline the benefits to society of the practice (and not just removal of the risks associated with engaging in illegal behavior) and how they outweigh the harms to society.
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Old 03-03-2005, 07:49 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Prostitution will NEVER be illegal.
It is illegal.

It will, however, never be fully eliminated. Like prohibition, once we have a taste for something, it is hard to give up.
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Old 03-03-2005, 08:00 AM   #75
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Note to self-stop typing when you just rolled out of bed...

I meant to say stopped.
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