New And Improved Defense For Racism

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MrsSpringsteen

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I'm being sarcastic just to make that clear. I saw a story about this on CNN. Hmm, so now some white people are going to justify using the N word because rappers and hip hop stars use it, in a "pal" way? He said it with an "a" before he beat the guy with a bat, so hey all is forgiven :|

Not to mention the fact that many African Americans don't approve of anyone using that word and don't agree that by using it themselves they are taking the racist power away from it.

BY JOHN MARZULLI and BILL HUTCHINSON
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

The Rev. Al Sharpton wants to testify that the N-word is never a term of endearment - refuting the claims of Howard Beach hate crime defendant Nicholas (Fat Nick) Minucci.

In a letter sent yesterday to Queens District Attorney Richard Brown, the activist minister offered to be an expert witness on the vile racial slur.

"To try and recast that word is not only a rewriting and distorting of history, it's an insult to black people," Sharpton told the Daily News yesterday.

The reverend's pitch was spurred by the 19-year-old defendant's claim that in hip-hop lexicon the N-word is a friendly greeting.

But prosecutors contend Minucci's use of the word before he allegedly pummeled African-American Glenn Moore with an aluminum bat was charged with racial hatred.

In a March jailhouse interview with News columnist Denis Hamill, Minucci begged to differ on how he used the N-word during the June 29, 2005, attack.

"There's a very big difference in the hip-hop world that I come from between 'n---a,' which is a greeting, and 'n---er,' which is racist," said Minucci, who is white. "'What up, n---a?' is like saying, 'What's up, pal?'"

But in his letter to Brown, Sharpton said the N-word is vile and degrading - whether it ends in -er or -a.

"I'd be more than willing to take the stand to explain the history and current connotations of the N-word," wrote Sharpton, who led a motorcade through Howard Beach, Queens, after the attack on Moore.

"If Minucci had referred to an Asian-American as a 'g--k' or a Jewish person as a 'k--e' before savagely beating him, he'd be laughed out of the courtroom if he claimed he was using the word as a welcoming gesture," Sharpton said.

Brown could not be reached for comment on Sharpton's letter. Minucci's attorney Albert Gaudelli did not return calls.

Sharpton said he was concerned that if Minucci is acquitted on hate crime charges it could make it harder to bring such charges against people who use the slur.

"It would be creating a climate that somehow that term would be sanitized," Sharpton told The News.

Minucci's Queens Supreme Court trial began May 22. A jury of five blacks, four whites and three Latinos will decide the fate of Minucci, who faces up to 25 years behind bars if convicted.
 
http://www.abolishthenword.com/

"Inspired while listening to a local radio show Lisa Evers "Street Soldiers" about the use of the N word, as well as seeing positive images during Black History month yet hearing negative lyrics in songs we experienced conflict, frustration and an overwhelming sense to "do something". We are using the billboard effect of t-shirts, the internet and the contract idea that Oprah uses on her show to pass on information and strengthen the commitment to this movement.

As a small group of Brooklynites who grew up during the original old school era of hip hop, we remember when rap songs never used the "N" word or profanity for that matter. We remember referring to our friends as homeboy and home girl. And we were still cool. We remember the airing of "Roots" and the sting of hearing the "N" word on national television for the first time. Now we ask ourselves what happened. What happened in our community that the "N" word is tossed around freely in everyday language? When the use of it makes you cool, down, accepted.

Our community has come full circle as we extend an invitation to others to call us the “N” word as well and we answer with a smile. Our ancestors must be rocking in their graves. The “N” word is not a term of endearment. It cannot be reapropriated. We cannot redefine the “N” word or re-spell it to make it positive. Racism is so subtle, we now think that we can embrace the “N” word and take away its power. However, not enough time has passed for this concept to be effective. The word is viewed as a racial slur at large, it will continue to be so until it is put away for a generation, and then maybe it can be embraced at such time in a historical context.

Until the pain of this word no longer lingers in society for any of us, we cannot continue to use the “N” word. Every time we use the “N” word it is a slap in the face of our elders and a blatant disrespect to our ancestors. We have not only lost our minds, but we’ve lost consciousness.

The dependency of this word as a greeting, to complete sentences and start conversations is a total disregard for every movement that gave us the many freedoms we enjoy today. This site is our answer to a call to duty. We now challenge you to make a personal commitment and join us in the movement to abolish the “N” word."
 
the problem... not in this case, that's just a silly excuse by a desperate lawyer... but in society as a whole is that the use of the word as a term of enderment is rampant in hip-hop culture... and as the hip-hop culture takes over more and more of the mainstream, younger kids don't neccesarily see the word as an evil word... because they hear it so often in popular culture.

:shrug: i understand the theory behind the use of the word... to "take the word as our own." but two things are going wrong... many young white kids now think it's ok to use the word ad nauseum, and it's tossed around sooooo much in rap music that the entire basis behind trying to "take the word" is pretty much lost.

i think a great example when discussing the "n-word" is richard pryor, who used to toss the word around like candy... but vowed to never use the word again after a trip to africa.
 
The language circus is an unfortunate side track to the core issue - a person was beaten with a bat! Trying to make this crime better or worse based on a word and how it was uttered misses the forest for the trees.
 
nbcrusader said:
The language circus is an unfortunate side track to the core issue - a person was beaten with a bat! Trying to make this crime better or worse based on a word and how it was uttered misses the forest for the trees.

So motive shouldn't matter?
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
the problem... not in this case, that's just a silly excuse by a desperate lawyer... but in society as a whole is that the use of the word as a term of enderment is rampant in hip-hop culture... and as the hip-hop culture takes over more and more of the mainstream, younger kids don't neccesarily see the word as an evil word... because they hear it so often in popular culture.

:shrug: i understand the theory behind the use of the word... to "take the word as our own." but two things are going wrong... many young white kids now think it's ok to use the word ad nauseum, and it's tossed around sooooo much in rap music that the entire basis behind trying to "take the word" is pretty much lost.

i think a great example when discussing the "n-word" is richard pryor, who used to toss the word around like candy... but vowed to never use the word again after a trip to africa.

All very true. I know a lot of white kids who say the N-word (not around african americans...or at least I hope not). They think it's cool and funny, because they are exposed to Dave Chapelle and hip hop, which uses it too casually. It's a serious issue that needs to be discussed...the word should not be used, black or white, casual or serious.
 
Offensive words should be rendered harmless through repetition and mass usage.

Look at the words "cracker", "honky", "whitey" and "white boy". Any white people here offended by those words, as they are printed? Not me. I can't think of one single epithet relating to my race (white) that offends me, which is rather "empowering", to use a Dr. Philism.

Naturally, context is the key here, which is the point BVS made with regard to the Howard Beach crime. Calling someone a "white boy" while beating him with a bat is a hate crime which should be prosecuted, obviously, but this avoids the issue.

Using the word "my nigga" as a slang term in reference to one's friends, regardless of the race of the person using it, is hardly criminal, nor should it be offensive.

At the same time, I know many gay people here in San Francisco who consciously call themselves "fags" and "queers", with the intent to weaken the sting these words have caused in the past.

Being overly sensitive to racial epithets only gives more power to those who wish to use them to hurt.
 
U2democrat said:
It's a serious issue that needs to be discussed...the word should not be used, black or white, casual or serious.

I agree that it should not be used. I remember starting a thread after Richard Pryor died about what he said about the use of the word, maybe someone can look for it if anyone's interested.

After visiting the Civil Rights Museum in Memphis the use of the word is more offensive to me than it ever was, and I didn't think that was possible. The original context in which it was used supercedes all other contexts and any and all attempts to reduce it's power on the part of rappers, etc. when you visit a place such as that. And for me it does anyway even without a stark reminder such as that museum.

People were never lynched or kept out of schools and public places, forced to the back of a bus, murdered by coward bastards in pointed hoods, for being honkies.
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
People were never lynched or kept out of schools and public places, forced to the back of a bus, murdered by coward bastards in pointed hoods, for being honkies.


You actually make my earlier point, which is that certain words are given too much power.

Some Latino kid refers to his friend as "my nigga", and this is supposed to conjure up 500 years of slavery and abuse? That's an overreaction.

Original word contexts are always being superceded, whether we want them to be or not. Look at the transformation of the word "gay", for example.

"Damn" and "hell" were considered very offensive words not too long ago, now they are used commonly, without too many people getting upset. "Shit" is heading in the same direction (the word "shit" I mean... please, no jokes).

Words are intrinsically meaningless. Name-calling is only effective if its victims infuse these words with the power to offend.


"You can't be racist by talking -- only by acting"

- Louis Farrakhan
 
Isn't it up to individual people to decide whether or not they feel offended by a word?

I have been friends and acquaintances with enough Israeli Jews to know that some of them will call anti-Semitism whenever they hear the mildest criticism of Israel and some of them would almost be branded anti-Semitic themselves for the statements they make. They run the gamut, based on their own personal experiences and so on.

So why should a white guy tell a black person they shouldn't be offended? Or that they're overreacting?

If something doesn't offend you, great. If it does, fine. That's not up to another person to decide for you.
 
i agree with many points in here, but the fact remains that the color (or gender, or sexual orientation) of the person saying the word does matter, whether we think that's fair or not.

there's a big difference between refering to myself as a "homo" versus a stranger calling me a "homo" versus a good friend calling me a "homo."

i don't think we can ever responsibly divorce ourselves from the histories of many of these words because they have been used in the past not just to denigrate but also to increase the physical and psychic domination of one race (or gender, or religion) over the other. the reason why anti-white slurs don't have the level of offense that their multi-culti counter parts do is that, due to history, we simply do not have a historical grand narrative of anti-white oppression in this country, unless we are talking about white-on-white discrimination. and this is why the N-word is, generally speaking, the nastiest word in American english: history.

in an indivdiual context, i think that words like "queer" and "my nigga" can be used without any harm, but i don't feel as if the public sphere is the same.
 
A lot of it also depends on the context where we live. Most of y'all posting here live in more progressive, tolerant areas.


I live in the capital of the Confederacy...there are still plenty around here who believe that the Civil War is still going on (heck even my next door neighbors). I guess that's why I could be a bit more sensitive to the N-word...wounds are still open around here.
 
nbcrusader said:
How much more intent do you want? There doesn't seem to be a defense that the beating was accidental.

I didn't say intent, I said motive.

The beating has been established.

But was this a crime of revenge, buglary, or based purely on skin color or sexuality?
 
U2democrat said:
I live in the capital of the Confederacy...there are still plenty around here who believe that the Civil War is still going on (heck even my next door neighbors). I guess that's why I could be a bit more sensitive to the N-word...wounds are still open around here.



this is a good point. my BF is from a very conservative small town outside of Memphis, and he grew up around the very casual and very hateful use of the N-word, his grandmother used the word "boy" when addressing a black man, etc. he and some of his friends who have since moved out of the area have a very visceral reation to the word because it reminds them so much of that deeply felt, highly lived-in, entrenched racism.
 
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16692690&BRD=2731&PAG=461&dept_id=574908&rfi=

“This crime was about race,”Assistant District Attorney Mariela Herring, the chief of the district attorney’s Gang Violence and Hate Crimes Bureau, told jurors in her Monday morning opening statement in Kew Gardens Supreme Court. “Nicholas Minucci would not have given these men a second look if they were three whites from Howard Beach.”

Minucci faces a 19 count indictment that includes assault in the first and second degrees as hate crimes, robbery in the first and second degrees as hate crimes, criminal possession of stolen property and criminal possession of a weapon.

Wearing a white dress shirt, black slacks and necktie, the restive Minucci sat stoically on Monday morning and listened to Herring paint a portrait of him as an affluent, hate filled young man.
Herring told jurors that Minucci was driving a $60,000 SUV and wearing an $8,000 gold chain and $2,000 gold watch when he attacked Moore with the bat that sent Moore into a fit of convulsions that had blood dripping from his ear.
“This was not about want or greed,” Herring asserted. “This was about hate and feelings of superiority.”
The 240 pound Minucci stole Moore’s sneakers as trophies after bringing a hailstorm of punches, kicks and baseball bat blows down on the 165 pound Moore, Herring said.
While acknowledging that Moore’s friend, Richard Pope, 26, also of East New York, did give a statement to investigators they were in the neighborhood to steal a car, Herring reiterated that the accused had no knowledge of their intentions and could have called the police like any law abiding citizen would have if they believed something was afoot in their neighborhood.
“The color of their skin was just like wearing a sign that said ‘criminal,’” Herring said. “This case is not about the ‘n’ word and whether its meaning has changed. Clearly it has not,” she told the sixteen jurors, six of whom are black.

"Pope described how he fled after Minucci and Ench jumped from the Escalade at 78th Street and 160th Avenue, screaming the racial epithet and demanding to know what the three were doing in the neighborhood.
When asked by Herring what the yelling sounded like, Pope only replied, “It was kind of racial.”

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_145180205.html

"He had a screwdriver in his hand, swinging like this ... I'm not getting cut with no screwdriver," Minucci said.

The attack left Moore with a fractured skull, which Minucci claims happened when Moore hit the cement.

Moore has admitted he went to Howard Beach to steal a car. Minucci claimed Moore tried to rob him, saying race had nothing to do with it.

"It's nothing like a hate crime, the kid tried to rob me," Minucci said. "If one of my friends tried to rob me I'd do the same thing. It doesn't matter what color you are."

The defense has not yet decided whether Minucci, who faces up to 25 years in prison if convicted, will testify at the trial."
 
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How odd, I have iTunes set on random and while reading this thread RFK's speech announcing MLK's death just came on.


Racism is still alive and well in this country, and I see it almost every day in my own city and neighborhood, even in my own family (extended). For me, with my personal background, it's too difficult to just toss aside the N-word.
 
Words like damn and hell have no connection to hatred and oppressive history of an entire race, that is sort of the point that can't be glossed over. When people use certain words it can indicate a complete insensitivity to how they hurt people-at the very least. At the very most, racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.

I have been shocked lately at how many times I've heard the word faggot in public, and used by adults, not kids or teenagers. Once it was used in reference to someone who may or may not be gay, the other to a describe a straight man's hairdo. I would never dream of uttering that word, I have always considered it hateful. People do feel free to use that word and others far more often than they would ever use the N word in public, that's for sure. Words are quite powerful, and in many cases are more hurtful than physical abuse could ever be. That's been my experience in life.

Does the use of racial slurs automatically indicate that someone is a racist? Are actions necessary to prove that?
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


I didn't say intent, I said motive.

The beating has been established.

But was this a crime of revenge, buglary, or based purely on skin color or sexuality?

How does this change Glenn Moore's injuries? Or the result that should occur because of the injuries from the battery?

Motive is only needed as an element to support guilt. I think guilt was established when the bat hit Mr. Moore.
 
nbcrusader said:


How does this change Glenn Moore's injuries?
No one's claiming it will change the injuries.
nbcrusader said:

Motive is only needed as an element to support guilt. I think guilt was established when the bat hit Mr. Moore.

What if it was self defense, or the attack was provoked?
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:
What if it was self defense, or the attack was provoked?

Great questions. How is this changed by race?

Run through the senarios based on the limited facts presented:

Mr. Moore goes to an area to steal a car (admitted).

According to defendant Minucci, Moore threatened Minucci with a screwdriver. He responded with a baseball bat.

If we take these representations as true, how does the utterance of a slur during the confrontation change the relative culpability of the individuals?

You are, in essense, suggesting that the standards for the defense of "self defense" be changed based on the color of individual's skin and the words used during an attack.
 
nbcrusader said:


Great questions. How is this changed by race?

Run through the senarios based on the limited facts presented:

Mr. Moore goes to an area to steal a car (admitted).

According to defendant Minucci, Moore threatened Minucci with a screwdriver. He responded with a baseball bat.

If we take these representations as true, how does the utterance of a slur during the confrontation change the relative culpability of the individuals?

You are, in essense, suggesting that the standards for the defense of "self defense" be changed based on the color of individual's skin and the words used during an attack.

No, I was speaking more in generalities.

Crimes are motivated by money, jealousy, power, and yes the hate of someone's skin color, religion, or sexuality...

To ignore that is turning a blind eye.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


No, I was speaking more in generalities.

Crimes are motivated by money, jealousy, power, and yes the hate of someone's skin color, religion, or sexuality...

To ignore that is turning a blind eye.

Are the motives criminalized in addition to the underlying crime?

This is not a matter of turning a blind eye. To the contrary, it is a distraction from the underlying crime - one that is highly politicized and inconsistently applied.
 
All that stuff about the "n" word and another offensive racist words have always intrigued me, because we don't have words like that in my country. I mean, words like "negro" (black) or "mono" (a very casual way to call white, blond people) denote racial qualities but they aren't offensive at all, in fact, they are used like common nicknames
 
4U2Play said:
Offensive words should be rendered harmless through repetition and mass usage.

Look at the words "cracker", "honky", "whitey" and "white boy". Any white people here offended by those words, as they are printed? Not me. I can't think of one single epithet relating to my race (white) that offends me, which is rather "empowering", to use a Dr. Philism.


Being overly sensitive to racial epithets only gives more power to those who wish to use them to hurt.

The reason you're not offended by "white" epithet is because you know that as a white person when a person uses those terms you really don't have much to be afraid of. These words don't have power, becuase YOU, as a white person, have the power. On the other hand, historically, and still today when someone uses the "N" word on a black person, that word holds the very real possiblity of being followed up by hatred and violence.

I also find it rather amazing when white people try to equate their experience with those of people of color. The experiences are not the same, not even close.

I also find myself tending to agree with Bill Cosby's rants of late--part of the problem is that black youth culture is in serious trouble. The misuse and overuse of the "N" word is just part of a much larger problem. Black youth culture (especially the music) has always had a certain "cool factor" but this is the first time in the history of Black America that the black youth culture represents something that is largely self-destructive and self-hating. There was genuine dignity in jazz, in blues, in rock and roll. This is lacking in much of hip hop, and this is what white youth are embracing. It's really, really sad.
 
maycocksean said:

The reason you're not offended by "white" epithet is because you know that as a white person when a person uses those terms you really don't have much to be afraid of. These words don't have power, becuase YOU, as a white person, have the power. On the other hand, historically, and still today when someone uses the "N" word on a black person, that word holds the very real possiblity of being followed up by hatred and violence.

Very well said, I agree
 
maycocksean said:
The reason you're not offended by "white" epithet is because you know that as a white person when a person uses those terms you really don't have much to be afraid of. These words don't have power, becuase YOU, as a white person, have the power. On the other hand, historically, and still today when someone uses the "N" word on a black person, that word holds the very real possiblity of being followed up by hatred and violence.

I understand the historical arguments, but when do they change?

Should anyone fear the use of a word if it is not followed with violence?

Do whites get to fear use of epithets if they are followed by violence?

Is there really a strong correlation between an utterance of the "N" word and violence?
 
nbcrusader said:
Is there really a strong correlation between an utterance of the "N" word and violence?



historically? yes.

and are we only concerned with violence?

violence is merely one symptom of the problem. probably the easiest one to identify. racism takes on many, many faces, has many, many guises, and lurks in many, many facets of life. it's often not easy to see, or to recognize, and wishes of having a "colorblind society" are wishes of the oppressor, a luxury of someone who gets to go through life unaware of the color of his skin.

that said, i will say that sometimes the power structure behind epithets can be altered due to circumstance. as i've mentioned before, i live in a very diverse city in a *very* diverse neighborhood. i've twice had racial slurs yelled at me. i was once called a "fucking redneck" (which was funny, since i was looking pretty gay at the time) as well as a "fucking gringo" and both were said to me when i refused to give someone change, and both were said in anger. in that context, i was absolutely concerned about the possibility of violence as a white person.
 
threat of violence was used as the basis to create different standards for use of epithets against whites vs. blacks.

I think the key to the issue in this thread is that we lose sight of the violence between people when we start looking at the color of those involved.
 
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