Nephew of Iraq "Mandela" Stature rising in Iraq - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-05-2004, 02:54 PM   #16
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 07:38 PM
Arrest warrents for Mr. Sadr have been issued by an Iraqi Judge. He is charged with murdering the cleric that returned to Iraq that had supported the invasion.

Wow, they took their time dealing with this guy.
__________________

__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-05-2004, 04:58 PM   #17
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 07:38 PM
I hate feeling like this...but damn if I was not correct back in August. From an Iraqi Blog:

[Q]Monday, April 05, 2004The clashes of today were worse than what I expected.

21 Iraqis killed and 155 injured, 7 US solders killed and dozens injured, 10 other Spanish and Salvador soldiers killed and injured.

This is what the media says: One day clashes.
And here is the real story; long and boring, but real.

Muqtada AsSadr, is a very important phenomenon in the south of Iraq. I remember some discussions I had with a very dear American friend, working with the USAID in Baghdad; Sloan Mann was asking me about the most dangerous challenge in building the new Iraq. Falluja? He asked.
“AsSadr” was my answer.
That was 10 months ago.


Muqtada is the son of Mohammad Sadeq AsSadr; the very strong Shia leader that was killed by the Iraqi government in the late ninety’s. His father was very popular and strong; I cannot forget the documentary, made by one of his people, about the last Friday prayer and speech before his murder. He was wearing a white burial shroud, and asked his followers not to start fighting the government even if he was killed.

By the way, Mohammad Sadeq AsSadr is the cousin of Mohammad Baqer AsSdr the other famous leader of the forbidden (Dawa Party) whom was killed by the Iraqi government in the early eighty’s.

Ok .. back to the subject.

Muqtada, is younger than me. He is around 25 years old, spent all of his life in Iraq studying in religious schools, I think he is very introverted, defensive and acting like a rebel. Yet, he is very smart and pragmatic. He started working immediately after the war stopped, inherited the popularity of his father and used it as a starting point. He knows that his age and religious degree doesn’t allow him to represent himself as a leader for Iraq, that’s why he started and maintained strong relations with the Iranian very well respected religious personality: Al-Haeri.

Considering Al-Haeri as his religious reference gave him the chance to go ahead with his Anti-American, Anti-Saddam perspective with a strong religious cover.

AsSadr opened offices and mosques in the cities of the south and in Saddam city (Athawra) in Baghdad, which he managed to change its name to AsSadr city. AsSdr city is a huge gridiron city inside Baghdad that one million Shia people live in, it is the area of the poor, vulnerable and uneducated people, and it is the weapons market of Baghdad, you can get a grenade for $5 or a machine gun for $50.

He created a parallel Iraqi government, as an alternative option beside the CPA, he selected ministers too.


And, maybe the most important thing he could arrange, he controlled a very important part of the religious establishment of Shia Iraqis ... (Al-Hawza).

Everyone was underestimating him; Bremer, political leaders, media, most of my friends, my parents. But I didn’t… at all.

From my frequent visits to the south, I could really feel and see the actual strength and authorities AsSadr have, and the real possibility that he will be a key person in the next stage of the Iraqi history.

White revolutions were happening in the southern cities, without anyone noticing that. A strong Shia-Shia competition, which reached to fighting some times, happened between AsSdr and Al-Hakim (assassinated last year in the huge explosion at Najaf). Cities like Amara, Kut, Diwanyya and Simawa were completely controlled by AsSadr party, and Nasryya had dramatic demonstrations that changed the Al-Hakim people in the governorate and replaced them with AsSadr representatives.

One of my dear friends at Najaf told me once that the “Najafians” call Al-Hakim party: the rational stream, and they call AsSadr party: the chaotic one. For sure Al-Hakim had decades of experience and political work, and a strong backup and support from the Iranian government, but AsSadr was just starting.

Then, AsSadr established his own militia: Al-Mahdi Army, with blessings from AyatoAllah Al-Haeri… tens of thousands of Iraqis joined the new army under the eyes of everyone.

The thing that I want to make obvious here is the well designed political and military steps of AsSadr, that I’m sure no one even heard about.
Do you know why you didn’t hear much about him earlier?
Because AsSade wasn’t noisy enough to drag the attention of Bremer and the international media, the undesigned explosions of Falluja did.

When the CPA decides to close the AsSadr newspaper and arrest his assistant, they should expect to have real clashes… I mean REAL ones.

Can’t everyone see how much is the American administration lost? Can’t you feel the lack of vision? Can’t you see the bloody results of the slow and stupid policy that has no orientation?

Did the Bush administration come to Iraq to establish a religious government?
For sure not, because this is against the American interests, and that would be like giving Iraq as a unexpected gift to the Iranian government… the Enemy.

So why do they support the religious leaders and treat them like local gods?
Because Bremer wants to be democratic?
So why close their newspapers and arrest them?
Because they are inflaming passions?
lol
lol
:*)

Why do they discover everything very late? Very very late?
Doesn’t the American administration understand the deference between solving problems and preventing problems from happening?
Or they just don’t care? They will run away after a couple of months… and Iraqis are going to solve their problems by themselves.
If that was the case, why didn’t you leave Iraqis solve their problems alone from the beginning? Who asked you to start the fire and go?

The problems Iraq have now needs decades to be solved… decades I say.

What do I want?
As a first step...
Change the name of the Bush war from “Iraq liberation”… to Operation: Hit and Run.

Posted by: Raed Jarrar / 2:47 AM[/Q]

http://raedinthemiddle.blogspot.com/
__________________

__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-05-2004, 08:34 PM   #18
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 12:38 AM
More than 99% of the violence and killings that have occured since May of last year have been caused by Saddam Loyalist and others from the Sunni Triangle, not Mr. Sadr who has lost his brain because an advisor and his newspaper have been taken out. There are over 15 million SHIA's of which a few thousand follow Mr. Sadr. The Majority of the SHIA including Sistani are against him.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 04-05-2004, 11:08 PM   #19
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 07:38 PM
Just because he has not been committing ALL of the violence, does not mean he has been taking action against the coalition.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-06-2004, 12:40 AM   #20
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Just because he has not been committing ALL of the violence, does not mean he has been taking action against the coalition.
If you objectively look at who has committed the vast majority of the violence since May 1, 2003, you will see that it is not Mr. Sadr. It is only really since this past weekend that Mr. Sadr has definitely come after coalition forces. Before that, his assasination of other Shia's and his newspaper were the concerns.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 04-06-2004, 06:34 AM   #21
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 07:38 PM
Here.... "You are right!"

The Iraqi Blog is Wrong.
COuncil on Foreign relations is wrong from last year.
I am wrong.

My apologies. There is no way he is connected to any other violence. There is no way the JUDICIAL SYSTEM he set up is contrary to the governement the US is setting up. What was I thinking.

Mr. Sadr clearly has been working with us.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-06-2004, 06:27 PM   #22
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Here.... "You are right!"

The Iraqi Blog is Wrong.
COuncil on Foreign relations is wrong from last year.
I am wrong.

My apologies. There is no way he is connected to any other violence. There is no way the JUDICIAL SYSTEM he set up is contrary to the governement the US is setting up. What was I thinking.

Mr. Sadr clearly has been working with us.
I don't believe the Council On Foreign relations ever claimed that Mr. Sadr was responsible for a majority or even a significant portion of the violence against US troops over the past year.

If you analyze in detail the violence against US forces, you will find that the overwhelming majority of violence committed against US troops has been committed by Saddam Loyalist in the Sunni Triangle. Thats why the US Marines on their new rotation are going into the Sunni Triangle and not Mr. Sadr's little district in Baghdad.

Mr. Sadr is creating his own violence now, but there is no evidence connecting him to the majority of violence since May that has mostly occured in the Sunni Triangle.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 04-06-2004, 06:33 PM   #23
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 07:38 PM
I think you are again putting words in my mouth. Show me ANYWHERE that I said the CFR said that.

Nowhere in any post have I claimed that he was responsible for ALL of the violence.

Next time you want to respond to my posts, please be fair about MISCHARACTERIZING what I have said. It is rude, it is wrong, and it is below you.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-06-2004, 06:34 PM   #24
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 07:38 PM
The CFR has had info on the website about Al-Sadr since the invasion last year. It was updated yesterday:

[Q]Updated: April 5, 2004


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who is Muqtada al-Sadr?
He is a young, fiercely anti-U.S. Shiite cleric making a bid for power in Iraq. He poses a challenge to both the traditional Shiite religious hierarchy and the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA). Sadr has called his armed followers, who fought coalition forces in several Iraqi cities over the weekend, “the enemy of the occupation” and has condemned Iraqis who cooperate with the coalition. While his movement involves only a small percentage of Iraq’s Shiites, it appears to be gaining momentum and popularity, and experts warn that the threat Sadr represents is serious.

What caused the recent unrest?
After coalition forces closed the Al Hawza newspaper March 28, Sadr’s supporters flooded the streets of Baghdad to protest. The paper was widely seen as Sadr’s mouthpiece; the CPA accused it of printing lies that stirred up anti-American sentiment. On April 3, coalition authorities arrested Mustafa al-Yaqubi, a senior aide to Sadr. He is wanted in connection with the killing last April of a rival cleric, Ayatollah Sayyed Abdul Majid al-Khoei; authorities say they will arrest Sadr on similar charges. After Yaqubi’s arrest, the protests turned violent: thousands of armed members of Sadr’s private militia, the Imam Mehdi Army, took over police stations and engaged in gun battles with coalition forces in four cities across Iraq that killed a reported 8 U.S. soldiers and one soldier from El Salvador. Dozens of Iraqis were also killed and hundreds were reported wounded.

What is Sadr’s background?
His father, the Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Sadiq al-Sadr, was the most powerful Shiite cleric in Iraq in the late 1990s. His uncle, Ayatollah Mohammad Baqir al-Sadr, was a leading Shiite activist before his execution by Saddam Hussein’s forces in 1980. Muqtada al-Sadr went underground in February 1999 after a spray of gunfire—from Saddam’s agents, according to most accounts—killed his father and two brothers. He inherited a network of schools and charities built by his father, along with the allegiance of many of his followers. Only 31, Sadr lacks the decades-long religious training required of high-ranking Shiite authorities. He bases his claim to authority on his lineage.

Who does he oppose in the Shiite hierarchy?
He is a rival of the traditional senior Iraqi Shiite clerics led by the Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. Sistani, 72, has counseled patience with the U.S. occupation and retains the allegiance of most of Iraq’s 14 million Shiites, experts say. Sadr has called for the immediate withdrawal of the occupation forces and directed Shiites not to cooperate with them. His apparent goal, some Iraq experts say, is to establish an Islamic theocracy. Sistani, in contrast, has backed some form of Islamic democracy.

Does he support violence?
In his sermons, Sadr had called for non-violent resistance and stopped short of invoking a jihad against U.S. troops. That changed April 4, when he instructed followers to abandon their street demonstrations, since they “have become a losing card and we should seek other ways,” The New York Times reported. Instead, Sadr said, “Terrorize your enemy, as we cannot remain silent over its violations.” That admonition reportedly sparked the deadly street battles with coalition forces. On April 2, Sadr used his Friday night sermon to declare himself “the striking arm” of Hamas and Hezbollah, two anti-Israel organizations on the U.S. list of terrorist groups. “The fate of Iraq and Palestine are the same,” al-Sadr said, according to news reports. “We promise the Palestinians and all the oppressed that we will fight and defeat all the oppressors.” He also referred to the death of Sheik Ahmed Yassin, the Hamas leader killed by Israeli forces on March 22, as an attack on all Shiites.

Does he command an armed force?
Yes. Sadr created the Imam Mehdi Army, a force his aides claim numbers 10,000 men, to support his political movement and impose order. (Some reports estimate the number is more likely between 1,500 and 3,000.) His followers have clashed violently with militias supporting rival clerics, and over the weekend with coalition forces in the Baghdad slum known as Sadr City, in Sadr’s hometown of Kufa, near Najaf, in Basra, and in Amara. Fighting continued April 5 as the coalition used ground forces and Apache helicopters to raid Sadr’s office in Baghdad, according to news reports. Kenneth Katzman, a Middle East specialist at the Congressional Research Service, says, “I would say he is part of the resistance—I would consider him an adversary to U.S. forces.”

What is his base of support?
Young, impoverished Iraqi Shiites, many of whom are concentrated in Sadr City, a vast slum of 2 million previously called Saddam City and renamed for the senior Sadr after Saddam’s fall. One reason for his popularity: his aggressively anti-U.S. pronouncements tap a vein of frustration among Shiites in a way that Sistani’s more moderate stance does not. Sadr’s followers have been making a play for support in Basra and other Iraqi Shiite towns. Sadr, like Sistani and the Shiite hierarchy, is based in Najaf, a city holy to Shiites because it contains the tomb of Ali ibn Abi Talib, the Prophet Mohammed’s cousin and son-in-law and the top leader, or caliph, of Islam in the 7th century.

What actions have his supporters taken to challenge U.S. authority?
Until the recent violence, Sadr supporters had been fairly quiet. After the fall of Baghdad, Sadr supporters seized control of many aspects of life inside Sadr City—appointing clerics to mosques, guarding hospitals, collecting garbage, operating orphanages, and imposing Islamic dress codes, according to a report by the International Crisis Group. Because the neighborhood had been relatively peaceful—few anti-coalition attacks had occurred there—U.S. authorities did not interfere much with Sadr’s organization until September 2003, when they arrested a Sadr-affiliated cleric who appeared to be backing attacks on coalition forces. On October 16, Sadr’s faction—whose challenges to U.S. authority were increasingly brazen—attempted to take over the building that housed the offices of the U.S.-appointed Sadr City neighborhood council and install its own leaders. U.S. forces moved in and kicked out Sadr’s men, arresting 12.

How much support does Sadr have?
It’s not clear. Some experts estimate Sadr has a few thousand fanatical supporters—largely those in the Imam Mehdi army—willing to take up arms on his behalf. Coalition officials estimate that Sadr’s hardcore supporters range between 300 and 3,000 men, says Drew Brown, a Knight Ridder correspondent in Baghdad reporting on the issue. “It’s a fringe movement, certainly, but anyway you look at it, I think that the numbers alone constitute a threat to public order,” Brown says. In addition, some experts say that there are hundreds of thousands of additional Iraqis who are “passive” Sadr supporters. They owe Sadr some allegiance out of respect for his lineage and because of the services his social network provides, but, until recently, were not willing to stand up to the Americans on his behalf. But as anger at the occupation has grown among Shiites, experts say, so have the number of committed Sadr followers.

What violent clashes appear to have involved Sadr supporters?
In the most intense recent clashes, thousands of Sadr supporters fired rocket-propelled grenades and small arms at coalition forces in Sadr City April 4, prompting return fire from American troops in tanks, according to news reports. In Basra, Sadr supporters took over the offices of the American-appointed governor in what was described as a peaceful protest. Sadr supporters were involved in several altercations last fall:

On October 9, 2003, two U.S. soldiers were killed in Sadr City when a protest demanding the release of an arrested cleric affiliated with Sadr, Moayed Khazraji, turned into an apparent ambush of U.S. forces. Khazraji was arrested September 29 on charges that he was hiding weapons in his mosque and organizing anti-U.S. violence.
On October 15, Sadrists and gunmen loyal to Ayatollah Sistani engaged in an 8-hour gun battle October 15 over control of two key mosques in Karbala. One man was reportedly killed; Sadr’s men were ultimately defeated.
On October 16 in Karbala, three U.S. military policemen were killed in a firefight with the personal security forces of a cleric believed to be affiliated with Sadr, Sayyid Mahmoud al-Hassani. In early September, U.S. forces had killed three of al-Hassani’s men when a protest over the coalition’s searching of the cleric’s home turned violent.
Over the winter, experts say, Sadr began to lose support as Sistani grew more influential; Sistani’s views forced the CPA to change its plans for turning over authority to Iraqis several times. However, experts say, the closing of Al Hawza and the arrest of Yaqubi—and the grisly murders of four U.S. contractors March 31 in Falluja, which seemed to test the limits of coalition authority—have galvanized support for Sadr.

Have Sadr supporters orchestrated car bombings or assassinations?
It’s not clear. Though Sadr has denied involvement, U.S. officials are investigating his organization’s possible links to high-profile attacks, including:

The August 29, 2003, car bombing in Najaf that killed Ayatollah Mohammed Baqir al-Hakim—a key Sadr rival—and some 100 others outside of the shrine of Ali.
The August 24 bomb planted outside the Najaf house of another respected rival cleric, Ayatollah Mohammed Saeed al-Hakim, wounding him and killing three others.
The April 10, 2003, killing in Najaf of Ayatollah Khoei shortly after he had returned from exile. It was for this killing that Yaqubi was recently arrested. After Khoei’s death, Sadr supporters surrounded the home of Ayatollah Sistani, demanding that he leave Iraq. Sistani called in some 1,500 local tribesmen to end the siege.
Has Sadr directly challenged the Iraqi Governing Council?
Yes. On October 10, 2003, he announced that he had appointed what he called an authentically Islamic government to replace the Iraqi Governing Council appointed by Coalition Provisional Authority head L. Paul Bremer III. But a rally in support of his Islamic government in Baghdad last fall drew only a few hundred supporters, an indication that Sadr had, at that time, failed in his bid for political power, says Yitzhak Nakash, author of “The Shi’is of Iraq” and a professor of Islamic and Middle Eastern studies at Brandeis University. Experts say that support may now be reviving.

How have U.S. forces reacted to Sadr?
In response to the weekend uprising, Bremer called Sadr “an outlaw” and accused him of trying to usurp the legitimate authority in Iraq. “We will not tolerate this,” Bremer said April 4, according to news reports. “We will reassert the law and order which the Iraqi people expect.”

Will U.S. authorities arrest Sadr?
On April 4, coalition spokesman Dan Senor said coalition forces plan to arrest Sadr for his involvement in the Khoei murder, using a warrant issued several months ago by an Iraqi judge. Officials had refrained from arresting Sadr before now for fear that doing so would further inflame anti-U.S. sentiments and increase his support. Instead, experts say, U.S. forces had tried to get senior Iraqi clerics to more aggressively condemn him.

-- by Sharon Otterman and Esther Pan, staff writers, cfr.org[/Q]
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-06-2004, 08:11 PM   #25
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 07:38 PM


interesting...is this the little section of Bagdhad? Looks like it has spread.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-07-2004, 07:25 AM   #26
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 01:38 AM
You can find a interesting german article here: http://www.zeit.de/2004/16/Nadschaf

It's about martyrs as a source of power and money.
Their conclusion: the more Shiits of one cleric get killed the more influence he gets in future iraq.

Klaus
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 04-07-2004, 06:22 PM   #27
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 07:38 PM
Hehe....

[Q]Of course, Sadr has set up offices in almost every city, town, and village in the south. And I have mentioned earlier that they had assumed full control over my small village where I work in the Basrah governorate weeks ago, terrorizing IP officers, civil servants, and doctors but nobody was listening.[/Q]

Little section of Bagdhad.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-07-2004, 07:21 PM   #28
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Hehe....

[Q]Of course, Sadr has set up offices in almost every city, town, and village in the south. And I have mentioned earlier that they had assumed full control over my small village where I work in the Basrah governorate weeks ago, terrorizing IP officers, civil servants, and doctors but nobody was listening.[/Q]

Little section of Bagdhad.
It is a little section of Baghdad and his militia is estimated at a total of 3,000. Of course he definitely wants the general public in Iraq, the USA, and the rest of the world to think that he has a vast network and represents all the Shia. Prior to the events of last weekend, Mr. Sadr had a lot of his thugs transported to to a lot of these towns for his uprising. Mr. Sadr knows the power of media and the ability it has shape images that are not in fact true. The Image Mr. Sadr is trying to create is that of a massive popular uprising. Fortunately, most people have not fallen for that.

There are over 15 million Shia in Iraq, Mr. Sadr and his thugs are a few thousand. Lets keep things in perspective.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 04-07-2004, 09:47 PM   #29
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 07:38 PM
LOL I am just going to say you are right. The Iraqi posting this stuff does not know what he is talking about.

Yep. anyone who believes that the uprising is significant is falling for it.

I swear you would tell me it was raining while somone was pissing on me.

The media is lying...the press is against us....

Please...enough already. I have posted from various sources including CFR and Iraqi Blogs. To deny that what is going on is not SIGNIFICANT is foolish. Is it a full scale uprising among the masses,,,no....but it is the MOST SIGNIFICANT resistance since the invasion.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-07-2004, 11:01 PM   #30
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,640
Local Time: 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
LOL I am just going to say you are right. The Iraqi posting this stuff does not know what he is talking about.

Yep. anyone who believes that the uprising is significant is falling for it.

I swear you would tell me it was raining while somone was pissing on me.

The media is lying...the press is against us....

Please...enough already. I have posted from various sources including CFR and Iraqi Blogs. To deny that what is going on is not SIGNIFICANT is foolish. Is it a full scale uprising among the masses,,,no....but it is the MOST SIGNIFICANT resistance since the invasion.


I'm glad I'm not the only one.
__________________

__________________
BVS is online now  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com