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Old 10-17-2005, 03:57 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
hiphop, the attacks Dreadsox was condemning were against the police, not the neo-Nazis.

Maybe in a perverse way it would be a good thing if they continued to use this strategy. If enough secondary conflict is generated by it, then the police might get fed up and ban or at least forcibly redirect their marches.
You got it right, Kieran!

Ack and the police being attacked doesn´t worry me. The same officers would probably beat the next Afro-American juvenile to death if they find a good reason (maybe he´s a dealer). Collateral damage like I said.

Bottom line is. The Afro Americans don´t want the Nazis to march through their street. Freedom of speech ideals aside, they will not sit there and play Uncle Tom, but do something about it. If that leads to aggresive action, well, redirect the Nazis next time.

Force them to walk through a white neighborhood, so the kiddies can ask "Daddy what does that sign on their arms mean?". Then you can explain them what the Nazis have done, how cruel they were. I´m sure your kids will be delighted to hear that from you and not to learn it in school first. Also explain that´s all free speech because the country you live in is so democratic. I´m sure the kids won´t be afraid at all...
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Old 10-17-2005, 04:04 AM   #17
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Originally posted by yolland
Nazi-linked anti-Semitic activity (harrassment, propaganda and vandalism, mostly of synagogues, Jewish schools and cemeteries) has increased sharply during the last decade as these groups have become more organized
When was the last time the Nazis got thrown into jail for this? Most of those crimes are not persecuted because the police is unable to find out who did it.

The very same criminals are defended with a shallow free speech argument.

But go on, continue to arrest your Sheehans, and continue to let the Nazis walk away freely. It´s not my business where America is heading, its just my 2c.
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Old 10-17-2005, 05:21 AM   #18
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It's very difficult when the Nazis do all they can not to get arrested while the Sheehans make a point of trying to get arrested.
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Old 10-17-2005, 05:42 AM   #19
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
When I read some posters here, I get the impression that apparently its the fault of the Blacks. Catholics and Jews wouldn´t have attacked the NeoNazis.

What?

Yeah, right. That´s what they say.

Wow.
Ya know what....I am the only poster who has raised this issue so if you do not understand my point...PM me instead of assuming the worst instead of "SOME POSTERS".

IF you think my point is wrong, then explain why I cannot find a SINGLE historical piece of evidence of any neo-Nazi group being attacked by Catholics and Jews.

They targeted the neighborhood for a reason...and the residents based on the initial article say, "what do you expect?"

Why should we EXPECT it?
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Old 10-17-2005, 06:20 AM   #20
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Originally posted by the iron horse
[B


I do not agree with the Nazis, but I do believe that all of us should have freedom of speech and the right to protest.

[/B]


If I have nothing good at all to say like a naziskin, there must be someone who must shut up my mouth. Not everyone can say what he wants, you know, in the end it must depend of the goodness of your message. "Freedom of speech has a scent", but in certain cases, for certain people like nazis, their Freedom of speech has just and only a bad smell..............
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Old 10-17-2005, 07:20 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


The very same criminals are defended with a shallow free speech argument.

But go on, continue to arrest your Sheehans, and continue to let the Nazis walk away freely. It´s not my business where America is heading, its just my 2c.
It is not a shallow argument. It is the same freedom of speech law that allowed Cindy Sheehan to conduct her protests.

Cindy chose to get arrested by not obeying the law.

I am thankful that we have such laws protecting our right to speak out.

The riots afterward, based on the things I have read were not directed at the Neo-Nazi's.
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Old 10-17-2005, 08:05 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
IF you think my point is wrong, then explain why I cannot find a SINGLE historical piece of evidence of any neo-Nazi group being attacked by Catholics and Jews.
Because you didn´t take the time for a well-done research -if you researched at all. Don´t discuss with me if you´re too lazy for that

http://www.holocaustsurvivors.org/cg...&da=texts&ke=3
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Old 10-17-2005, 08:10 AM   #23
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Originally posted by MissVelvetDress_75
Yeah I know it is only a dream to think that people are strong enough to ignore these types of demonstrations with out resorting to violence. It is also a dream to think that hate is no longer an issue here in the US or in the rest of the world.
A dream definitely.....
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Old 10-17-2005, 10:58 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
IF you think my point is wrong, then explain why I cannot find a SINGLE historical piece of evidence of any neo-Nazi group being attacked by Catholics and Jews.
Again, I can't recall the last time a neo-Nazi group marched through a Jewish or Catholic neighborhood. Having studied the nature of hate groups on the internet, I will say that, although they do officially hate Jews and Catholics, most of their energy is towards blatant racism targeted towards Hispanic and black populations, while just plain moping about Jews on the internet with all the old "Protocols of Zion" stereotypes.

However, correct me if I'm wrong, when the Orange marches in Northern Ireland purposely march through staunchly Catholic (and presumably with considerable IRA membership/support), they tend to erupt in violence, correct? That's probably the closest equivalent to that neo-Nazi march I can think of: a bunch of bigots choosing highly sensitive areas to target, and then sitting back and enjoying the violence that erupts as a result.

If the neo-Nazis had chosen to protest in the usual location of Downtown Toledo--which is also black, mind you--this would not have happened. But the neo-Nazis *purposely* chose the worst neighborhood they could that would take the *least* effort to incite a riot. And your reaction here to point fingers at the black population, unfortunately, is the reaction the neo-Nazis hoped for. After all, they were heard yelling "victory" as they were escorted out of the city before they even started marching.

Melon
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Old 10-17-2005, 11:09 AM   #25
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Originally posted by melon

And your reaction here to point fingers at the black population, unfortunately, is the reaction the neo-Nazis hoped for. After all, they were heard yelling "victory" as they were escorted out of the city before they even started marching.

Melon
Exactly. If you´re interested, click the link I posted. It´s an interesting story, also about two groups of Jews, the established ones and the new ones. Survivors of the death camps did attack the American NeoNazis.
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Old 10-17-2005, 03:03 PM   #26
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


Because you didn´t take the time for a well-done research -if you researched at all. Don´t discuss with me if you´re too lazy for that

http://www.holocaustsurvivors.org/cg...&da=texts&ke=3
I do not understand why you are calling me lazy. I have done NOTHING to deserve a comment like that. It is a personal attack, and it is not necessary.

I will read your link when I get the time, however, I will most likely not respond since it is clear you are not even remotely interested in a dialogue with me.
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Old 10-17-2005, 03:07 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
And your reaction here to point fingers at the black population, unfortunately, is the reaction the neo-Nazis hoped for. After all, they were heard yelling "victory" as they were escorted out of the city before they even started marching.

Melon
I am not certain if you are claiming I am part of the problem or what with this post.

My reaction is in response to the before hand expectations on the part of the black community member. Why is it to be EXPECTED that they would react this way?


It troubles me. THe mayor also spoke to the community the night before if my lazy research is up to par, because he expected it to degenerate into something violent.

If they struck out at the NEO Nazi, I would somehow feel that it was justified, however, the gangs went after their own community, and police and fireman.

I am trying to think it out....discuss it....and not make for a victory.
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Old 10-17-2005, 03:16 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
Ack and the police being attacked doesn´t worry me. The same officers would probably beat the next Afro-American juvenile to death if they find a good reason (maybe he´s a dealer). Collateral damage like I said.
Is this the prevelent attitude where you live?

Violence against police doesn't worry you, but hate speech is worthy of violent response?
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Old 10-17-2005, 03:43 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


I do not understand why you are calling me lazy. I have done NOTHING to deserve a comment like that. It is a personal attack, and it is not necessary.

I will read your link when I get the time, however, I will most likely not respond since it is clear you are not even remotely interested in a dialogue with me.

Well I have skimmed through it, I see no Jewish attacks, looting, burning down of restaraunts, no throwing bottles at police or fireman.

When I am feeling less lazy, I will reread YOUR article that allegedly shows Jews behaving in the same manner as the gangs did over the weekend.
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Old 10-17-2005, 04:08 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
However, correct me if I'm wrong, when the Orange marches in Northern Ireland purposely march through staunchly Catholic (and presumably with considerable IRA membership/support), they tend to erupt in violence, correct? That's probably the closest equivalent to that neo-Nazi march I can think of: a bunch of bigots choosing highly sensitive areas to target, and then sitting back and enjoying the violence that erupts as a result.
I think the parallel is interesting, and I also thought of it when reading the thread. And another parallel - in my view, usually when there is trouble or violence at Orange Marches, both sides are somewhat to blame. I don't buy the idea of the poor oppressed Catholics being forced to put up with Orange bigots and having to respond to violence as the only possible solution, etc. Not that I am defending the Orange idiots either.

So actually I agree with Dreadsox and am surprised at the way his comments are being misread. Have we reached the stage where we can't criticize violence if blacks are partly responsible?
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