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Old 08-29-2001, 05:41 PM   #16
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Obviously we are going to have to agree to disagree. I believe fundamentally that even a "degenerate" or a "criminal" has the right to free speech. What constitutes degeneracy and criminality to you? Why shouldn't these people be allowed to express themselves?
Obviously some types of speech are censured even in an open and democratic society and I support that. Speech that encourages violence against others is unacceptable and as a U.S. Supreme Court justice famously said in the early twentieth century, "free speech does not extend to yelling 'Fire!' in a crowded movie theater if there isn't one.

Fundamentally, free speech should extend to everyone because we cannot collectively agree on what types of speech should be censored.


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Old 08-30-2001, 02:43 AM   #17
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I am just so happy to see intelligent people having intelligent communication without calling each other names..

Just glad to see that here for a change..

****Formerly known as Miss Bonovista..Now known as Mrs.Emeraldscorpio.****

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Old 09-01-2001, 04:44 AM   #18
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Originally posted by melon:

Perhaps I come from a more old-fashioned liberal background, but my emphasis has always been on workers' rights, union rights, freedom of speech / press, and tolerance.

An interesting topic to add to the division I face in day to day life. I worked in a union, the UAW, and while the local union was new and had their own internai struggles and growing pains, I appreciate them for the generous pay increase/benefits package they demanded and GOT from the company. I also appreciate the way management kissed our asses and didn't fuck with us because they were scared of us.

What I really cannot understand, is how so many union workers I know are against the union, and how they are prepared to vote "yes" to make oklahoma a "right to work" state. Our election is coming up in 3 or 4 weeks, and the rhetoric for this right to work issue is alarming.

People actually believe that if it passes, then we will get all these new jobs here in oklahoma, and all of these new companies wil be knocking on our door. Yet, these so called companies will probably pay only $7-8 per hour. And management will treat the employees like shit(e), and the benefits will be non-existent at best.

The truth is, the only stimulant to our economy will be to our government and the management of these few companies who do come here. The real harm will be to the average worker, union or non-union shop. By making companies that are already union shops the workers choice to be a union member, you destroy the integrity of the existing union, and divide the employees therefore destroying their effectiveness and productivity. This, is the "company set-up", awaiting the enevitable fall.

So the logic of adding new jobs makes no sense to me when a "$15 an hour guy" is replaced by 2 "$7 an hour guys", because those guys can't buy houses and cars and support families like the other guy could.

Right to work is a rip-off, and I hope they don't pass it here and lower OUR wages and make THEM richer in the process.

It's about time oklahoma had another democrat governor like David Walters and got rid of our BAD GREEDY republicans like the one we have now.

I'm not necessarily jumping fences, because I never really claimed one side anyways, but I do call it as I see it!

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