NBC, Microsoft and AT&T Talk of Filtering the Internet - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-09-2008, 08:03 PM   #1
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
the iron horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: in a glass of CheerWine
Posts: 3,251
Local Time: 08:57 AM
NBC, Microsoft and AT&T Talk of Filtering the Internet

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/0...ter/index.html

A reply from the page:

"first it will be ‘copyrighted’ materials, then ‘perverted’ materials, then ’subversive’ materials

the status quo does not like the unfettered access that the internet gives to the masses

it will be shut down, enjoy it while it lasts"

— Posted by vaporland
__________________

__________________
the iron horse is offline  
Old 01-09-2008, 08:35 PM   #2
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,694
Local Time: 07:57 AM
So copyright infringements should just be thrown out the door because you want free stuff?

This is definately one of your bigger overreactions.

I don't know what your occupation is but if you were an author you'd be willing just to give up your copyrighted material and have me post all your books online so that no one has to buy it?
__________________

__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 01-09-2008, 09:17 PM   #3
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 08:57 AM
There is only one reason that ISPs are now interested in playing "traffic cop," even though the DMCA specifically exempts them from any liability regarding passive transmission of copyrighted material:

They are now media content providers themselves.

One half of our ISPs are cable companies and the other half are phone companies building fiber networks capable of becoming cable companies. So we can all thank media consolidation and ownership deregulation for this.
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 01-09-2008, 09:20 PM   #4
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
This is definately one of your bigger overreactions.
Maybe, but do understand that this would be the first time the ISPs have actively thrown out any notion of privacy on the internet. If "copyrighted materials" can be sniffed out, you can certainly guarantee that they will be able to "sniff" anything, including potentially unpopular speech.

At that point, we'll be little better than China. Unlike "real milk" and cigarettes, this is a big deal.
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 01-09-2008, 10:08 PM   #5
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,694
Local Time: 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Maybe, but do understand that this would be the first time the ISPs have actively thrown out any notion of privacy on the internet. If "copyrighted materials" can be sniffed out, you can certainly guarantee that they will be able to "sniff" anything, including potentially unpopular speech.

But how is it throwing out privacy? From my understanding it's still "sniffing" out only material that's posted, and if you don't own it why expect privacy?
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 01-09-2008, 10:14 PM   #6
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
the iron horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: in a glass of CheerWine
Posts: 3,251
Local Time: 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Maybe, but do understand that this would be the first time the ISPs have actively thrown out any notion of privacy on the internet. If "copyrighted materials" can be sniffed out, you can certainly guarantee that they will be able to "sniff" anything, including potentially unpopular speech.

At that point, we'll be little better than China. Unlike "real milk" and cigarettes, this is a big deal.


Thank you BonoVoxSupasStar and Melon for your replies.

I try to post threads here that might be of interest to some.

On this thread, I simply posted the link and a reply made from that link.


Take care,

I'm going to the icebox for a cold glass of fresh Jersey whole milk
and off for some rest.

And please pass the good news: Nicotine is not heroin. No need to pay fifty bucks for nic gum to quit smoking cigarettes.

Just stop


__________________
the iron horse is offline  
Old 01-09-2008, 10:54 PM   #7
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,694
Local Time: 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse

On this thread, I simply posted the link and a reply made from that link.
You said:
"it WILL be shut down, enjoy it while it lasts"

Little extreme don't you think?



Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse

And please pass the good news: Nicotine is not heroin. No need to pay fifty bucks for nic gum to quit smoking cigarettes.

Just stop


Well maybe you could find it cheaper on the internet.
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 01-10-2008, 12:16 AM   #8
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Canadiens1131's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,363
Local Time: 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


But how is it throwing out privacy? From my understanding it's still "sniffing" out only material that's posted, and if you don't own it why expect privacy?
The internet, at its current stage of evolution, can be seen as a utility just as gas, electric, and telephone. The average citizen gets up in arms at AT&T when someone in the company outs that they were allowing illegal wiretapping, and now the big companies are trying to do this legally to your internet traffic.

The "if you've got nothing to hide then why are you afraid to have your activity monitored" argument is infuriating from a standpoint of personal privacy.

And I'm sorry to say that ISPs have been sniffing your activity for a long time, and are doing so right now. Major ISPs are already throttling customer bandwidth for protocals such as Bittorrent, which are perfectly legal methods for distributing large files.

The argument is a really complex one, and is wrapped up in the net neutrality debate as well, so it's hard to get into in one post.
__________________
Canadiens1131 is offline  
Old 01-10-2008, 10:07 AM   #9
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,694
Local Time: 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Canadiens1160
The internet, at its current stage of evolution, can be seen as a utility just as gas, electric, and telephone. The average citizen gets up in arms at AT&T when someone in the company outs that they were allowing illegal wiretapping, and now the big companies are trying to do this legally to your internet traffic.

The "if you've got nothing to hide then why are you afraid to have your activity monitored" argument is infuriating from a standpoint of personal privacy.

No, I understand this part of the argument, but maybe I don't understand exactly where the "sniffing" will be done. From my understanding it was only going to be looking at content that is viewable by anyone on the internet, I really can't see that as a privacy issue. To me that's like stealing a car and "hiding" it in the middle of Central Park, not so private.

But I guess it gets a little more complicated if you are talking about torrents, etc...
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 01-10-2008, 10:16 AM   #10
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,557
Local Time: 08:57 AM
We do that torrent thing here on campus. We have some "packeteer" something or other that allows us to allocate bandwidth based on intranet/internet and types of protocol. Even though we have a T1 connection here, I can bit torrent faster at home through my cable modem and crappy wireless router.
__________________
Liesje is offline  
Old 01-10-2008, 10:44 AM   #11
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Canadiens1131's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,363
Local Time: 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


No, I understand this part of the argument, but maybe I don't understand exactly where the "sniffing" will be done. From my understanding it was only going to be looking at content that is viewable by anyone on the internet, I really can't see that as a privacy issue. To me that's like stealing a car and "hiding" it in the middle of Central Park, not so private.

But I guess it gets a little more complicated if you are talking about torrents, etc...
Yeah I had a read through the article, and as far as I can gleam, it seems they're talking about "packet sniffing", which is just monitoring the nature of the data going from your home router through their network connection.

I guess the best analogy for packet sniffing is similar looking at the labels on boxes going by a parcel convener belt at a FedEx shipping centre. An ISP can identify what traffic is P2P, what is email, etc. I'm not well-versed enough in the topic to know whether they can tell a piece of P2P traffic is, for instance "Garth Brooks' Latest Hits illegally downloaded" or a legal transaction such as downloading a large PC game add-on.

The case made by the telecom companies, that P2P traffic like Bittorrent impacts overall network speed and harms customers, is semi-valid, and I can see where they're coming from on that. To play devil's advocate a bit more, you're signing up with their terms of service to use their network to connect to the net, so they theoretically can do whatever they want.

That said, it does raise personal privacy concerns. Then again, this is in an environment where the RIAA is lobbying to ban copying to blank CDs and the CIA is listening to phone calls without a court order, so there you go.
__________________
Canadiens1131 is offline  
Old 01-10-2008, 11:03 AM   #12
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,694
Local Time: 07:57 AM
Thanks, that gives me a little more insight.

I guess with wiretapping it's pretty cut and dry, you are listening to a conversation. Whereas this seems to have a lot of gray. I can see where some are getting nervous, but I don't see it as the "end of the internet".
__________________

__________________
BVS is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com