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Old 12-04-2004, 12:14 AM   #46
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Oh, yeah, I remember getting donuts during Sunday school sometimes when I was a kid. Always got ones with chocolate frosting on them...mmm. And when I went to confirmation classes in middle school, I remember the adults would always bring candy and pop and stuff.

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Originally posted by Dreadsox
She has been an interim priest for three years.

When it became clear the vestry was considering making her our rector, she came out publicly, and it made the papers. She did not want to be chosen without being honest with the church.

She was chosen last month to become our permanent priest, and I am on the committee preparing the service next month.
That's cool . Congrats to her.

I don't know if there were any gay people that went to my church when I was younger. Seeing as the town I lived in (i.e., the town I'm originally from) wasn't very strict on a lot of issues, if there were any gay people that went to church there, I don't think they cared all that much (and if they did, they were too busy with other stuff to make a big deal out of it).

Angela
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Old 12-04-2004, 10:23 AM   #47
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Ya'all got food at church?

I was ripped off!!
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Old 12-04-2004, 12:05 PM   #48
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Ask not what your church can do for you, ask what you can do for your church. There's my little spin on JFK's famous line.
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Old 12-04-2004, 04:00 PM   #49
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Did it ever occur to anyone that the whole idea of a denomination or religious group putting forth an advertising commercial in the first place is...sad? Offensive? Insulting?

I see it as yet another example of how mainstream Christianity has completely sold its soul to the surrounding commercial culture. It seems this commercial proves that no longer is the church's mission to proclaim Christ, but rather is in the business to produce goods and services in the marketplace. I know that some people may categorize this as evangelism, but that goes to show that our only method of staying "meaningful" in this world has been reduced to empty messages of appearing "relevant," "tolerant," and "accepting."

Nothing in that ad had ANYTHING TO DO WITH JESUS CHRIST. The only time his name is mentioned is in the title of the church's denomination. This is called bait and switch, people.

I'm not making any claims about the political or religious message of the ad (I may actually find no problems with homosexuality, for that matter. And I actually don't mind the UCC, to be honest). It just disappoints me to the core that this is what the church has stooped to: commercial ads with nameless faces telling me why their product is better than any others'.

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Old 12-04-2004, 04:14 PM   #50
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Chris Mathews vs Jerry Falwell

MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL. We are back with Reverend Bernice Powell Jackson of the United Church of Christ and the Reverend Jerry Falwell, chancellor of Liberty University. Reverend Falwell, thanks for joining us.
JERRY FALWELL, CHANCELLOR, LIBERTY UNIVERSITY: Sure.
MATTHEWS: What do you think of this ad, this UCC ad, That showed these bouncers keeping people who were apparently a gay couple and some people who were African-American from coming in the church? Should the networks have run that?
FALWELL: I think networks should have run it. I have no problem with the ad. The United Church of Christ had a dual purpose. One was a positive one. Everybody is welcome. Every church should say that. Two, apparently, they are trying to say there are churches out there that everybody can't get in.
MATTHEWS: Right.
FALWELL: And I think they even have a subtler message. They're saying that the African-American, the Hispanic, the handicapped and then the gay couple or all four bona fide minorities. I would disagree. The two ethnic persons are as God made them, as I am Caucasian.
MATTHEWS: Right.
FALWELL: The handicap person, behind his power, his handicap.
MATTHEWS: Right.
FALWELL: And the gay couple. They chose to marry each other.
MATTHEWS: How did they get to be gay, though?
FALWELL: Well, we probably differ there.
MATTHEWS: I'm asking.
FALWELL: But I think all behavior is chosen.
MATTHEWS: I'm open. I don't know.
FALWELL: I think that...
MATTHEWS: Did you choose to be heterosexual?
FALWELL: I did.
MATTHEWS: You chose it? You thought about it and you came up with that solution? That lifestyle? (CROSSTALK)
FALWELL: Put it this way. I was taught as a child that's the right way to...
MATTHEWS: But did you feel an attraction toward women?
FALWELL: Oh, of course.
MATTHEWS: When people are born and they find themselves having an attraction to somebody from the same sex, do you think that's a choice?
FALWELL: I think you can experiment with any kind of perversity and develop an appetite for it, just like you can food.
MATTHEWS: You don't think it's nature? You think it's nurture.
FALWELL: I don't think any -- I don't think anybody is born a bank robber or born a hostile left-winger or a hostile right-winger or gay or a promiscuous heterosexual. I think there comes a time in childhood where environment may be a part of it, whatever, teaching, instruction, one chooses, I will do this or that. And that's why good, godly parenting...
MATTHEWS: How old were you when you chose to be heterosexual?
FALWELL: Oh, I don't remember that.
MATTHEWS: Well, you must, because you say it's a big decision.
FALWELL: Well, I started dating when I was about 13.
MATTHEWS: And you had to decide between boys and girls. And you chose girls.
FALWELL: I never had to decide. I never thought about it.
MATTHEWS: I think it's a ridiculous proposition that you actually sit down and decide. Let me see, boy or girl this week. Anyway...
FALWELL: I don't think anybody does that.
MATTHEWS: But let me ask you about this ad again. Do you worry that the networks are exercising a kind of reverse sort of liberal censorship, saying we are afraid that the conservatives will be mad at us?
FALWELL: I think it's a corny ad. I think it's a corny ad.
MATTHEWS: Right. Well, that's a good word for it.
FALWELL: Because, really, it's a left-wing slap at a lot of churches. And I don't know where those churches are.
MATTHEWS: Right.
FALWELL: I don't know where I can walk up and I can get in.
MATTHEWS: What do you think of John Danforth as a member of the Supreme Court, if he gets nominated, should he be? He just stepped as the U.N. ambassador.
FALWELL: Because he's pro-choice -- he is a great man. He's had an illustrious career. But because he is pro-choice, I would object to it.
MATTHEWS: OK, thank you very much for joining us.
FALWELL: Thank you.
MATTHEWS: Thanks for fighting the traffic, Reverend Jerry Falwell.
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Old 12-04-2004, 10:50 PM   #51
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Falwell didn't really say anything extreme at all. He didn't really put up a good argument though.
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Old 12-05-2004, 05:53 AM   #52
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Falwell didn't say anything extreme in that interview, but he's made some really dumbass remarks about homosexuality in the past.
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Old 12-05-2004, 09:27 AM   #53
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well, the point remains and Matthews, a practicing Catholic, pounded it home: when did all you heterosexuals make the conscious choice to prefer members of the opposite sex?

sorry, but the notion that homosexuality is a "choice" is pointed to as the basis of all homophobic discrimination.

and Fallwell said on Meet the Press last week that a gay Republicans should joint the Democratic party.

the man is an overweight embarassment to Christians everywhere -- he should be denounced, loudly, but those who he claims to represent.
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Old 12-05-2004, 09:45 AM   #54
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I agree, homosexuality is not a choice. I'm heterosexual, but I don't remember choosing to be one. Jerry Falwell is an embarrassment. I have never liked the guy, and in fact once picketed a meeting of Falwell's Moral Majority and damn near got busted for parading without a permit.
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Old 12-05-2004, 11:09 AM   #55
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Falwell's opinions are, in fact, denounced by other Christians. Part of the gift and challenge of practicing the Christian faith is maintaining the size and shape of the tent we're all supposed to be under.

Falwell doesn't speak for many evangelicals, to my knowledge. Yet he loves media attention and the media love to parade him before the camera any time they can in order to lampoon him, methinks. John Stott is much more of an articulate and respected voice. He is a British evangelical much more widely respected.

I don't think any one of us can speak to the basis of sexuality for the entire human race. It is too personal and controversial topic for that.
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Old 12-05-2004, 12:19 PM   #56
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Whether or not one chooses to be gay, I'm not sure of. I'm heterosexual, but I am still responsible for my actions, whether it be lust, or harassment, whatever it is.
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Old 12-05-2004, 06:59 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Whether or not one chooses to be gay, I'm not sure of. I'm heterosexual, but I am still responsible for my actions, whether it be lust, or harassment, whatever it is.

so if two gay men in a loving, committed relationship -- remember, we don't allow them to get married, so that's not an option -- have sex with each other, is that irresponsible and comparable to sexual harassment or worse?
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Old 12-05-2004, 09:00 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



so if two gay men in a loving, committed relationship -- remember, we don't allow them to get married, so that's not an option -- have sex with each other, is that irresponsible and comparable to sexual harassment or worse?
Whether or not they're born gay, I do believe they have the option whether or not they choose to have sex. I think sexual harassment is wrong any way you look at it. I used that as an example to state why I feel it's my responsibility to control my actions.
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Old 12-05-2004, 09:03 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Whether or not they're born gay, I do believe they have the option whether or not they choose to have sex. I think sexual harassment is wrong any way you look at it. I used that as an example to state why I feel it's my responsibility to control my actions.

so gay sex, by definition, is inferior to heterosexual sex? let's set aside the decision to have sex, we have to because gay people are not permitted to have marital intercourse. let's pretend that we have 2 couples who love each other terribly and have been together for a long time. one couple is straight and the other is gay. are you prepared to render a judgement as to which physical union is better?
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Old 12-05-2004, 09:33 PM   #60
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I am.

Heterosexual union is better than homosexual "union." Heterosexual union might produce children and continue the human race. That, in short, makes it better.
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