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Old 01-04-2005, 07:33 AM   #16
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Originally posted by cardosino
Typical evangelical this Church is not.
Actually, it is. It just doesn't fit the stereotype purpetuated in the press.

Rick is an excellent speaker and teacher. He is always careful to tie his statements to many Scripture references.
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Old 01-04-2005, 07:59 AM   #17
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Actually, it is. It just doesn't fit the stereotype purpetuated in the press.
Hence it is not "typical" in the context in which it is being discussed in this forum.
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Old 01-04-2005, 09:17 AM   #18
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I'm never comfortable with evangelical people. That doesn't mean that none of them do good things, many do, but their evangelical bent always makes me wary.

This guy seems to be putting his money where his mouth is, but I can't gush too much as, rightly or wrongly, I'm always waiting for the scandel (which I do realize may never come).
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Old 01-04-2005, 10:14 AM   #19
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Fallwell, Robertson, and Dobson are an embarassment to Christians everywhere. Their bombastic rhetoric is disgusting and I wish the media wouldnt seek out their idiotic opinons when major distaters/significant events occur.

Alister Begg, John Piper, or Warren would represent the christian viewpoint far more effectively and graciously.

Man...I wish C.S. Lewis was still alive. Could you imagine him on Larrry King or Meet the Press.
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Old 01-04-2005, 11:01 AM   #20
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how about W? is he an embarassment to Christians?

(that's not meant to antagonize, i'm really curious.)
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Old 01-04-2005, 11:03 AM   #21
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Christian tv last weekend

On News Year Eve the Catholic station had a rosary service for the victims and on New Years Day there was a memorial service. I thought that it was nice and it was the first time I've seen a rosary service in 20 years.
The other christian stations had shows on Armagedon and how rock and roll is satantic. I found the rock and roll one funny because they were saying things like how the Beatles are devil worshippers. Nothing on the Asian tradegy instead it was how everyone is going to hell.
I had the flu last weekend and there wasn't much on t.v. I'm not into organized religon since my dad was protesant and my mom was a Catholic.
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Old 01-04-2005, 11:05 AM   #22
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Originally posted by Irvine511
how about W? is he an embarassment to Christians?

(that's not meant to antagonize, i'm really curious.)
He's an embarassment to people from many walks of life I'd think.
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Old 01-04-2005, 11:22 AM   #23
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Originally posted by cardosino


As someone who's a member, you couldn't be more wrong.

The main priorities in our church are helping the poor, helping in rehans of about 30 varieties, and routinely sending help to AIDS clinics in Africa.

You're welcome to come see for yourself, or you can continue to display your ignorance.
And I'm betting I'm not as ignorant as you think me to be, cardosino.

I know a bit out Saddleback's history -- hell, I even attended a Sunday morning service there several years ago -- and Saddleback was (and is still?) in fact a member congregation of the very conservative Southern Baptist Convention, though Saddleback certainly has never made much effort to put that fact in their publicity material.

Nevertheless, I just googled Saddleback and read an article from summer of 2004 stating that Saddleback would probably break ties with the SBC because Saddleback was intending to align itself with the Baptist World Alliance, which is apparently a bit too liberal for the tastes of the folks in SBC leadership. I wonder if your church ever did split from the SBC. http://www.biblicalrecorder.org/cont...southern.shtml

Look, I give Warren credit for even talking about the AIDS epidemic, let alone the fact that his church is putting resources toward the problem. I can guarantee you that this is rare among conservative evangelical churches. By the way, you'll note that in the article I've referenced above, Warren himself describes Saddleback as "conservative theologically." Though he adds that his church is "radical when it comes to methodology." To Warren's claim that his church does "radical methodology," I say great. I hope that actually means something. I really do. But one can never be too skeptical of such claims coming from conservative evangelicals -- especially when it has to do with an issue like AIDS.
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Old 01-04-2005, 11:23 AM   #24
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Not sure what the title has to do with this thread at all.

Same here.


I really need to get to reading this book though, I promised my father I would before he passed away.
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Old 01-04-2005, 11:41 AM   #25
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Originally posted by pub crawler


And I'm betting I'm not as ignorant as you think me to be, cardosino.

Maybe, but comments like "It's a typical, conservative evangelical church right in the middle of a major stronghold for conservative Christians. As for Warren, if it looks like a duck....." certainly don't dispay an intimate knowledge of the facts, for argument's sake, I'll apologize and say you're not.


Quote:
Originally posted by pub crawler

I know a bit out Saddleback's history -- hell, I even attended a Sunday morning service there several years ago -- and Saddleback was (and is still?) in fact a member congregation of the very conservative Southern Baptist Convention, though Saddleback certainly has never made much effort to put that fact in their publicity material.

Is the label more important to you than what's inside ?



Quote:
Originally posted by pub crawler


Look, I give Warren credit for even talking about the AIDS epidemic, let alone the fact that his church is putting resources toward the problem. I can guarantee you that this is rare among conservative evangelical churches. By the way, you'll note that in the article I've referenced above, Warren himself describes Saddleback as "conservative theologically." Though he adds that his church is "radical when it comes to methodology." To Warren's claim that his church does "radical methodology," I say great. I hope that actually means something. I really do. But one can never be too skeptical of such claims coming from conservative evangelicals -- especially when it has to do with an issue like AIDS.
I understand where you're coming from, but it seems like nothing short of financial audits and notarized logs of all church-sponsored activities would convince you otherwise.

Come along some day, see for yourself, speak to some people, see what you think.

Did you know Rick's wife was visiting AIDS clinics and meeting with the President of the Philippines and other 3rd world countries in between fighting breast cancer ? Rick's not a saint, neither is his wife and God knows I sure am not, and Saddleback isn't perfect, but it's the closest I've personally found to a church that actually addresses these types of issues (poverty, AIDS, etc) head on in a practical way in a manner I can actually trust.

Yes, Rick is anti-stem-cell research, pro-life, etc. But those issues are very much in the background at Saddleback, the focus is on helping the poor, homeless, etc.

I voted for Kerry, but did not agree 100% with him on everything, I chose the most improtant issues to me personally, and made my decison base don that. So it goes with Saddleback, yes it's a Baptist church, ut if their focus was on gay marriage, abortion, and stem-cell research, I wouldn't be a member.
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Old 01-04-2005, 12:38 PM   #26
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Your father's passing away, neutral? If so, I'm praying for you and your family.
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Old 01-04-2005, 12:54 PM   #27
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I don't consider W an embarrassment when it comes to his faith. He goes to church and prays for wisdom and guidance. I don't think there is anything too offensive about that. Millions and millions of americans, as well as people of all religions do the same thing every week.
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Old 01-04-2005, 01:38 PM   #28
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i find the thread title offensive.
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Old 01-04-2005, 01:59 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by cardosino


I understand where you're coming from, but it seems like nothing short of financial audits and notarized logs of all church-sponsored activities would convince you otherwise.
Those things would help.

Quote:
Come along some day, see for yourself, speak to some people, see what you think.
Hmmm, well I might make a phone call to Saddleback and ask the staff there a few questions.

Quote:
...yes it's a Baptist church, but if their focus was on gay marriage, abortion, and stem-cell research, I wouldn't be a member.
Fair enough. Please understand that I'm going to challenge the claims of any conservative American movement -- church or not -- because I am not in line with the right wing extremism currently pervading the American ethos. My view of fairness, justice and equality is very much at odds with the agenda of the right wing nutcases running this country. The conservative evangelical community has largely consumed the koolaid and as a result is aligned with and supports these nutcases.

I will say that -- in light of what you've written in this thread -- you personally don't seem to fit the mold of the typical conservative evangelical.
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Old 01-04-2005, 02:13 PM   #30
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Originally posted by pub crawler

My view of fairness, justice and equality is very much at odds with the agenda of the right wing nutcases running this country. The conservative evangelical community has largely consumed the koolaid and as a result is aligned with and supports these nutcases.

I posted this article a few weeks ago, this is more in line with how I think, and many others too.

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition...on_two.art.htm


I'm sorry to see how you stereotype, but it's always the case that the media loves to report on the controversial comments of the Buchanan/Falwell (or maybe Sharpton/Jackson on the other side) rather than what might be the more mundane and positive, but less controversial actions of others.
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