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Old 07-29-2003, 07:09 AM   #16
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I think the long term consequences of having schools like this would be damaging for all parties concerned. The homosexual youth will sure have a safe and welcoming school environment which should be the right of any child, but what happens when these kids leave school and their peers who never had the opportunity to look past bias still retain the fear or revolt of homosexuality by becoming familiar and learned on it, are suddenly working side by side out in the real world and the problem is still there? Its not good enough putting the problem 'away' to be dealt with at a later stage. If we want our children to learn acceptance, we have to teach it while they are children.

Another thing is how many young kids really know where they're at? How many young girls for example might get a crush on a female teacher or school friend and get the teenage confusion about what's really happening? A lot of kids go through this phase and its troubling enough. Which kind of leads on to another problem homosexuals face which is 'coming out'. Many find it hard enough to do this when they've reached maturity, the backlash one can find is phenomenal and really something that can only be truly appreciated by someone who has gone through it. I don't know what the age is when American kids reach High School, over here it is 12-13. If its a hard time for an adult, I'd hate to think how difficult a time it might be for a 12 year old to suddenly find they need the inner strength and guts that most adults still battle with when they feel its time.
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Old 07-29-2003, 09:02 AM   #17
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I would like to continue this discussion, but I don't want to see the thread derailed. So that the discussion about taunting, which is good in itself, can go on, I'm doing a split.

This thread should remain focused on the issue of the gay school. Thread about teasing/taunting to follow shortly.
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Old 07-29-2003, 04:15 PM   #18
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I believe it is segregation. We have many different groups that cannot change who they are. Are we going to start a public school for women? There are plenty of examples of young women being harassed by students and teachers. Even still, there are studies that show that teachers call on boys more often then girls reinforcing all kinds of negative things. Many techers call on the first hands they see up, when studies have shown women/girls take slightly longer in processing time. Then we have the boys who do not keep their hands to themselves.

So why not?????

Aren't women as deserving of a place where they can learn?
What about African Americans?
What about Hispanics?
What about "insert here"?

It is wrong. Separate but equal was determined illegal in regards to race. It should be found illegal now if tax $$$ is being used to pay for it. Where are the adults in these schools? Why aren't they doing anything about it?
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Old 07-29-2003, 04:32 PM   #19
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I agree with melon. While not a great permanent solution, I think it's an interesting experiment.
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Old 07-29-2003, 04:52 PM   #20
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Skin color, race, gender...these are all things you can't change and with years and years of fighting stereotypes people are finally coming around to understand that their fears and hatreds are wrong. It's taken this long for many to realize they can't justifiy their prejudices against something a person can't change, and yet, still these are major issues today.

But people still think homosexuality is a choice. There are people in this very forum that believe this, and therefore they'll use religion, skewed logic etc. to call them sinners and to try and take away their rights. No kid should have to go through this, and not that I believe these schools will be the best answer but it may be a good band aid until the wound is actually healed. Until people actually see them through the same eyes they see there straight friend.
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Old 07-29-2003, 04:55 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
No kid should have to go through this, and not that I believe these schools will be the best answer but it may be a good band aid until the wound is actually healed. Until people actually see them through the same eyes they see there straight friend.
Fund them privately then. Public MONEY should not be used to separate children.

Show me how separating black and white students helped to see them as equal when segregation in effect.

Separating people has not demonstrated that it changes the way people feel about one another.
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Old 07-29-2003, 04:56 PM   #22
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I think it should be pointed out however that it is choice, not forced segregation. That seems to me to be a vital difference.
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Old 07-29-2003, 05:04 PM   #23
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sulawesigirl4:
you're right, but i stil think that this sends out the wrong signals. Neither color of the skin nor sexual orientation should be any reason that you need a special school for them.
So called "normal" people have to accept that they exist and they have to get used to them. The money end the energy should rather be spent to raise acceptance in the "regular" schools

Klaus

p.s. naiming a "normal" school after that guy would maybe be a good start
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Old 07-29-2003, 05:12 PM   #24
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I'm not saying I think it's a good or a bad idea. I just think it is an interesting one.
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Old 07-29-2003, 05:43 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Fund them privately then. Public MONEY should not be used to separate children.

Show me how separating black and white students helped to see them as equal when segregation in effect.

Separating people has not demonstrated that it changes the way people feel about one another.
Maybe it's partially the public school's fault for not doing their job to promote equality.

I agree separation doesn't change a damn thing as far as people's views, but it may bring short safe haven for those who didn't feel safe in "coming out" in a straight environment. Segregation was wrong, but do you think FORCED integration is better? It's obvious that homosexual adolescents are having problems in an environment that isn't exactly condusive to them learning.

Maybe a program within the schools is a better solution one where gay and lesbians feel comfortable coming out and straight kids learn understanding and tolerance.
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Old 07-29-2003, 07:35 PM   #26
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Maybe it's partially the public school's fault for not doing their job to promote equality.
First of all, I totally disagree that the schools are not doing enough to promote equality. 1/2 my Master's Degree classes dealt with different learning styles based on gender and race. An entire course was spent learning about diversity in reference to gender, sexual orientation, and race and how to adapt your teaching styles to improve learning. Most education programs towards certification deal with these topics.

I cannot say that every public school is not doing this but I can say that in my school we are dealing with this early on. I can say that we do 1 Hour a week in my elementary school on tolorence towards others and violence prevention. It does not get deep into sexual orientation, however, if the topic comes up it is addressed. As I said I can only speak to my experience as a teacher. At the high school there are organized groups and clubs that are specifically for gay and lesbian students. I teach in the lower grades so I am not part of this.

I can say that there are lessons in which parents have requested that their child not be allowed to attend. I firmly believe that we as teachers can teach until we are blue in the face about equality and tolorence, but IF the parents at home are racist biggots, you are not going to make a difference.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I agree separation doesn't change a damn thing as far as people's views, but it may bring short safe haven for those who didn't feel safe in "coming out" in a straight environment. Segregation was wrong, but do you think FORCED integration is better? It's obvious that homosexual adolescents are having problems in an environment that isn't exactly condusive to them learning.
Isn't FORCED integration what happened in the US about 50 years or so ago?

If you agree this will not change the views of people, how do you propose it will help change views? Will they be going onto Gay Colleges and into Gay jobs so that they can be shielded further? Aren't we reinforcing the perception that they are somehow unable to cope with their peers?

What about black students? In the other thread we have people protesting that white teachers cannot teach Black History to black students. Could it therefore be argued that straight teachers cannot teach to gay students?

What the hell happened to equality for all? I am going to have a hard time teaching that segregation is wrong this year.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Maybe a program within the schools is a better solution one where gay and lesbians feel comfortable coming out and straight kids learn understanding and tolerance.
There are programs. I am curious though, how much more time need be spent on these things in the classroom. It begins at HOME. What subjects should be cut short in order to fit this in?
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Old 07-29-2003, 08:57 PM   #27
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It sure sounds like segregation to me, though a private gay school would be a different matter. Like the first black kids that had to deal with the hostility of an all white school, I'm afraid these first openly gay kids will have a hard time.
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Old 07-29-2003, 10:22 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


First of all, I totally disagree that the schools are not doing enough to promote equality. 1/2 my Master's Degree classes dealt with different learning styles based on gender and race. An entire course was spent learning about diversity in reference to gender, sexual orientation, and race and how to adapt your teaching styles to improve learning. Most education programs towards certification deal with these topics.

I cannot say that every public school is not doing this but I can say that in my school we are dealing with this early on. I can say that we do 1 Hour a week in my elementary school on tolorence towards others and violence prevention. It does not get deep into sexual orientation, however, if the topic comes up it is addressed. As I said I can only speak to my experience as a teacher. At the high school there are organized groups and clubs that are specifically for gay and lesbian students. I teach in the lower grades so I am not part of this.
You're very fortunate. We don't have these programs here. I have many close friends who are teachers and I've had this discussion with them.

Quote:
I can say that there are lessons in which parents have requested that their child not be allowed to attend. I firmly believe that we as teachers can teach until we are blue in the face about equality and tolorence, but IF the parents at home are racist biggots, you are not going to make a difference. [/B]
I know. I've never taught in a public school, but I've worked with youth since I was a freshman in college, I know there are some kids you may never reach. But there are many you can.



Quote:
Isn't FORCED integration what happened in the US about 50 years or so ago?
[/B]
Yes and that part I was playing more of devil's advocate than I was anything. But I'm curious as to if violence would have been curved if it was more gradual.
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Old 07-29-2003, 10:37 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Yes and that part I was playing more of devil's advocate than I was anything. But I'm curious as to if violence would have been curved if it was more gradual.
Interesting point....I wonder....however do you think that the leaders of the Civil Rights movement wanted it to be gradual?
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Old 07-29-2003, 10:40 PM   #30
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


You're very fortunate. We don't have these programs here. I have many close friends who are teachers and I've had this discussion with them.

The problem too is that with the high stakes testing that is being brought into most states along with the requirements of no child left behind, the 1 hour a week would be the first thing that many teachers would cut from their plans to squeeze in content.

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