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Old 07-23-2003, 08:19 PM   #31
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
God doesn't take sides. But we certainly have the resonsibility to choose His side.
Which is precisely what I am doing.

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Old 07-23-2003, 09:25 PM   #32
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"My point, I think, is that I don't believe God "takes sides" as many people would have us believe that God does. God is compassionate towards both the unborn and toward the mothers of the unborn equally. God understands the suffering of the families of murder victims and the suffering of murderers. I think that trying to take a God who can do all things, knows all things, and loves everyone and trying to fit this God into human political molds is a mistake at best and a sin at worst."

I do have an idea what BVS means. My family and my husband's are Lutherans. My father-in-law died several years ago and my mother-in-law remarried a Southern Baptist. He is a wonderful man, however she is floored by what comes out of her Sunday school teachers mouth (no offense meant to others here, just repeating what they told me last weekend). They are always taking about "are you saved" ect. But he told his class that he has been taking to his neighbor and he hopes "that Roman Catholic" can still be saved.
She was absolutely floored. I'm not saying they are typical of all SB, but they are for the ones I've met. Even though they are some of sweetest nicest people I've met. They maintain a religious superiority that is very repugnant to me.
She is leaving the church and as it so conservative is risking her marriage. They don't wear pants in church and women don't talk back, ect. She will be seen as a slur on Duane. Her husband thinks I'm horrible for contrdicting my hubby in public.
I'd appreciate Nb's or 80's thoughts. (seriously as I have no idea how to counsel or help her).
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Old 07-23-2003, 10:00 PM   #33
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Actually melon, the very first time I ever heard "new world order" was indeed in a religious context, not political.

Now that that's out of the way, on to more important matters.

I realize now that I responded to you incorrectly. In my attempt to defend myself and my freinds and family who are also conservative Christians, I responded in anger, and that was very wrong. I apologize. Maybe I should give understanding a try.

But melon, maybe you should, also. I have never called you a nonChristian. I have never ridiculed you for being a homosexual. I have never belittled you, nor have I ever condemned you. You know these things to be true.

And melon, I have tons of Christian friends, people who identify themselves as Christians, and I can guarantee you that most of them never would, either. I live with conservative Christians. I do indeed know them better than you.

And what about those who belittle homosexuals, those who practice hatred toward homosexuals? What I do know about them is that (a)They are Christians in name only, having no relationship with the Lord, or (b) they do not let the Holy Spirit live through them. It's really that simple, melon.

So why do you judge all conservative Christians by the actions of a very vocal few who are obviously not walking the path Christ intended for them? Melon, I've read about some pretty lewd things that go on at gay parades (half naked women practicing s&m in the streets, etc.). But I know that all homosexuals are not like that. Would you want me to judge you on the basis of what those very vocal homosexuals do and say?

Melon, I believe that homosexual sex is wrong. Most of my friends do, also. But that doesn't mean that we hate those who practice homosexual sex. I know many people who are involved in sinful practices left and right. But does that mean I hate that person? No, no, no.

So, why am I automatically labeled a bigot and a pharisee for thinking that a certain thing is wrong, when I have never presented that belief in anything but a respectful manner? Why do you rail against me and my conservative beliefs so much?
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Old 07-23-2003, 10:15 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scarletwine
[BI do have an idea what BVS means. My family and my husband's are Lutherans. My father-in-law died several years ago and my mother-in-law remarried a Southern Baptist. He is a wonderful man, however she is floored by what comes out of her Sunday school teachers mouth (no offense meant to others here, just repeating what they told me last weekend). They are always taking about "are you saved" ect. But he told his class that he has been taking to his neighbor and he hopes "that Roman Catholic" can still be saved.
She was absolutely floored. I'm not saying they are typical of all SB, but they are for the ones I've met. Even though they are some of sweetest nicest people I've met. They maintain a religious superiority that is very repugnant to me.
She is leaving the church and as it so conservative is risking her marriage. They don't wear pants in church and women don't talk back, ect. She will be seen as a slur on Duane. Her husband thinks I'm horrible for contrdicting my hubby in public.
I'd appreciate Nb's or 80's thoughts. (seriously as I have no idea how to counsel or help her). [/B]
scarletwine, I can't really comment on the particular situation, but I will let you know what I believe about "being saved".

The reason Christians want others to be "saved" is not because of any feeling of superiority. We believe we have found the greatest treasure there is to posssess and out of love for others, we share our faith because we want others to share in that treasure.

Being saved is what I call "being born again". Jesus himself said that no man can come to the Father unless he be born again. When Nicodemus asked Christ how a man can be born twice, Nicodemus was thinking Christ was talking of physical birth. But Christ told him he was talking about a Spiritual rebirth. Christ later told his disciples that after he had descended to Heaven, he would send the "counselor" (the Holy Spirit) to be with them. Paul and others made very clear what "being born again" is. It is when the old nature, that sin nature that every person is born with is put to death, and the new nature is given to a person. That new nature is the Holy Spirit. This only occurs when people confess their sins to God and ask God for forgiveness and decide to follow Christ. At that moment, their spirits are made perfect, and that perfect condition of the spirit (not the flesh) is the only thing that allows them into Heaven. So God is not playing some big cosmic game of "hmmm, who shall I let in today?". The only spirits he lets into heaven are those spirits that are perfect. And only those spirits that have been washed in the blood of Christ are perfect. The reason that only perfect spirits can abide in Heaven? Because darkness and light cannot abide together; God cannot abide in the presence of sin. It is against His own spiritual nature as God.
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Old 07-23-2003, 10:21 PM   #35
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So there's no overarching problem with Roman Catholics being saved in general? As long as Catholics seek the forgiveness of God for their sins and want to follow Christ, just as the Christians that 80s is describing do, then they are just as saved as their more conservative brothers and sisters?
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Old 07-23-2003, 10:28 PM   #36
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80's,
The church as a whole, and when I say that I mean most organized denominations of the Christian Church Catholic, Methodist, Baptist etc., especially here in the South has done nothing but judge, turn their back, and ostercize homosexuals in the church.

Until recently the Church turned their back on the plague of AIDS because it was thought of as a gay disease. Christians should have been the first to reach out and help these people, but instead they turned their back and judged these individuals.

They've excluded them as leaders in the church.

Lobbied in the banning of gay marriage.

How can you not see why people feel the way they feel.

And then they say we aren't homophobic and we don't hate you, but we believe you're wrong. What's that about?

What if I were to say; "I don't hate conservative church goers, but I think you are all sinners for what you believe. Now if you don't practice what you believe then that's fine, but as soon as you practice what you believe you're wrong. And I'm going to make it illegal for you to practice those beliefs."

Would that make it better?
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Old 07-23-2003, 10:36 PM   #37
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Originally posted by paxetaurora
So there's no overarching problem with Roman Catholics being saved in general? As long as Catholics seek the forgiveness of God for their sins and want to follow Christ, just as the Christians that 80s is describing do, then they are just as saved as their more conservative brothers and sisters?
I suppose some might think that Roman Cathloics can't be saved. But I think those people are ignorant of the word of God. I personally know some Roman Cathlolics that are born again.
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Old 07-23-2003, 10:40 PM   #38
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Okay, cool.

I wasn't being sarcastic, just so you know. I really wanted to know what you thought about that.
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Old 07-23-2003, 10:40 PM   #39
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can come to the Father unless he be born again. When Nicodemus asked Christ how a man can be born twice, Nicodemus was thinking Christ was talking of physical birth. But Christ told him he was talking about a Spiritual rebirth. Christ later told his disciples that after he had descended to Heaven, he would send the "counselor" (the Holy Spirit) to be with them. Paul and others made very clear what "being born again" is. It is when the old nature, that sin nature that every person is born with is put to death, and the new nature is given to a person. That new nature is the Holy Spirit. This only occurs when people confess their sins to God and ask God for forgiveness and decide to follow Christ

But you see we do that every Sunday. We ask for forgiviness of our sins and "confess our sins" and verify our belief in the Apostle or Nicede *****. We don't need to be a special denomination to achieve that. This is why I believe fundamentaltist are thae farthest from God as you can get.
In my mind and that of many other denominations Jesus came to soften Gods messageg as well as save the world.

edited to add;

Maybe this doesn't belong in this forum but maybe does.

Mine is not a frivilous reply but a quest for understanding.
I believe Jesus' message overrides all of the freakin old Book and God wanted it so.

You still didin't answer my question about other religions vs your own.
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Old 07-23-2003, 10:44 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
80's,
Until recently the Church turned their back on the plague of AIDS because it was thought of as a gay disease. Christians should have been the first to reach out and help these people, but instead they turned their back and judged these individuals.

They've excluded them as leaders in the church.

Lobbied in the banning of gay marriage.

How can you not see why people feel the way they feel.

You're right, Christians should have been the first to help with the AIDS disease, rather than judging...and I've got a luittle secret for you...man many Christians are involved in fighting AIDS.

And as far as what you've seen "in the south", do you forget that I am from the DFW area, also? I have seen what you are talking about, but is not the dominant spiritual behavior in this area.

As far as excluding gays from leadership in the church, I have to say I agree with that. If I believe that homosexual sex is wrong, I could not support a sexually active homosexual for a leadership role in the church, just as I would not support a sexually active unmarried person for a leadership role in the church.
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Old 07-23-2003, 10:44 PM   #41
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It's not fair to generalize all fundamentalist Christians that way, Scarletwine, and you know that.

80s is doing the best he can with limited backup.
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Old 07-23-2003, 10:45 PM   #42
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Okay, cool.

I wasn't being sarcastic, just so you know. I really wanted to know what you thought about that.
Oh I definitely know you weren't being sarcastic.
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Old 07-23-2003, 10:49 PM   #43
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Originally posted by Scarletwine
This is why I believe fundamentaltist are thae farthest from God as you can get.

You still didn't answer my question about other religions vs your own.
The definition of "fundamentalist Christian" is a Christian who believes that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. I'm curious then as to why you think fundamentalists are "the farthest thing from God".

As far as not answering the one question, I guess it was because I didn't know you were asking a question about other religions vs. my own. Would you mind asking it again, please?
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Old 07-23-2003, 10:55 PM   #44
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It's not fair to generalize all fundamentalist Christians that way, Scarletwine, and you know that.

80s is doing the best he can with limited backup.
Excuse me but there were about 3 responses in the time I was thoughtfully typing mine. I neither said anything nasty to 80's or NB, just asking for clarification. Sorry if anybody was insulted.
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Old 07-23-2003, 11:02 PM   #45
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80's,

Seriously no disrespect meant, even if my blunt manner comes across that way.
I guess it comes from the way fundamentalist write off all people that do not believe their teachings as "not Saved" not allowed into heaven.
My heaven doesn't lock out Catholics, Jews, ect.
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