My good friend Pat Buchanan... - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-05-2002, 04:47 PM   #31
I serve MacPhisto
 
unforgettableFOXfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,053
Local Time: 12:17 PM
Biggest... Post... EVER!

Alright everyone, time for me to make another post here since the conversation has picked up again.

Garibaldo - Some of this is kinda for you, and kinda not. Its really to try and clear up any misconceptions that people are having, but its doing so from my point of view, which I try to keep pretty objective, but thats not always possible. Nothing I say is intended to be an attack on conservatives, or Americans (again, Im very much appreciative of the US) but Im going to try to put things into a bigger picture. I picked up on some of the stuff you said, truth be told, it was because sometimes I find what you say kinda grates on me a little, Im a sucker for stress and punishment or something. However, I noticed that you had a lot of stuff which was very valid, and also very lighthearted at times (which suprised me, because yeah, I dont know you very well, and my limited experiance was a negative one at best, but I suppose its all in the interpretation of reading, perhaps it was sarcasm, or satire or something, who knows). Anyways, the last thing I want to do is start a big argument over this, its a place for discussion, and since we're being nice, Ill try to state what I have to say in an in-abbraisive manner, or as much as possible.




On with the post.



Hmm... So Ill attempt to clear some small things up as a Canadian and a Liberal-minded individual.

The whole idea of liberalism is the greatest good, for the greatest many people. Liberalism is about equality. To say that liberals are heartless without adequately qualifying that statement is very similar to calling Canada, Soviet Canuckistan, or as I am about to do, describe my experiance with the Conservatives of the world. To make a sweeping generalization, as I so often do to save myself pages and pages of explaination (again, this never going to be 100% true, 100% of the time, this is merely my experiance with most not all conservatives). Conservatives seem to be pro-helping people with money, and anti-helping people without it. Giving all the breaks to people who dont need it, didnt necessarily earn it legitimately, through time and effort, and all in all doing a successful job of screwing over the hard working lower classes. Pro-maintaining archaeic ways of life, resisting change, and scrutinizing those with radical ideas for mostly everything under the sun. The last time I checked, that was one of the causes of the French Revolution. In turn, the American Revolution.

People revolted against the US specifically, however that really wasnt the meaning of the attacks. On a grander scale, they were against the Western World that is 'oppressing' them - the figurehead of which, is America, most powerful nation on earth. Define oppressing as you like, but suffice to say the developing nations really are treated like shit and exploited for what theyre worth. Anyways, when you have a vastly large majority of people living in the western world holding almost all of the world's wealth, but most of the worlds non-wealthy population living in the non-western countries, you get a very large ammount of segregation. Canada is a nice place to live because of the large ammount of acceptance and refuge that can be found here that cannot be found anywhere else. We're not the richest, sure, perhaps not financially, but culturally we are one of the best. When a group of individuals is treated like shit for so long, theyre more than likely going to fight back, thusly all of the civil wars that people come to Canada in order to seek refuge from. On a global token, thus the attacks on the west.

The September 11th attacks werent attacks on the States. Well, in the literal sense they were, but in the figurative sense the September 11th attacks were attacks on the decadent way of life of the West. However, thats not as noble as it might sound, since it was carried out by religious fanatic militia men who were propagandized into doing so. The US didnt deserve it, the West deserved it. The loss of life is not justified. Those groups do have a reason, though it is somewhat perverse in nature. Reason doesnt make it excusable, and a general need for come-uppance does not warrent an attack on a specific group, nor does it warrent a loss of life. I could say this till the cows come home, and people would still argue, but Ill just stop there.

However, in defense of the liberals. Its not because we're heartless, and its not just because it was the us. Its because that as liberals and in my case as a canadian, the balance of equality, power, and the need for the majority of people to feel welcomed and not dejected. I myself feel sorry and ashamed that every 4 seconds, someone dies of hunger in 2nd and 3rd world nations. That shouldnt be happening. We have the power to stop it, yet here we are on our high horse fattening ourselves up, doing whatever we damn well please, living like kings. If we're not careful, we may find ourselves dethroned and perhaps decapitated if King Louis is any example of past events repeating themselves. We have the tools for change, we have the reason to change, and we have the knowlege of what will happen if things dont change. We just need to make it happen. Thats why I take the stand that I do, not because Im anti-american, and not because the conservatives are 'wrong' - because they arent in a lot of cases, but I do it because things would be so much better off if we could all put aside our own needs and think of someone else for a change.


Now, in retrospective, I realise that Garibaldo's comment was not really directed at me, because I wasnt the one whining about being called a whiner. Which is, exactly my point. When I started this thread, I never bitched about Buchanan calling us whiners. Canadians are pretty resillent, and while sure we do whine about this and that, we're generally too polite to open our mouths about it if and when theres a problem. I dont care that he called us whiners. My main problem with what he said was the whole allusion to us being an enemy of the United States.



Now, the issue of 'who let who' into each other's backyard... When you have 3 countries side by side, with nigh-unguarded borders on the land, its pretty obvious that no conclusion can be reached as to whose "fault" it is that someone uninvited decided to just show up one day and commit a heinous crime. We treat each other fairly well I think, Canadians and Americans dont just cross the border, vandalise and arson things, and then leave. Same goes with Americans and Mexicans. So unless Ive completely missed something, this open doors policy we have has worked pretty well up until now. Something like this happens, and its just an indication that perhaps some tighter security measure are in order to make sure that Bill on flight A isnt really Bill the Jihad Bomber en route to global devesatation.

I still stand by the fact that I feel there is a better way for us to check for terrorists without 'racial profiling' everyone coming in to our countries. The fact that all the terrorists were of middle eastern heritage, doesnt really act as an excuse to soley screen them. Anyone, anywhere, at any time could stab you in the back, or for that matter climb on board a plane and destroy a national monument. It isnt a bad idea, but it shouldnt be necessary, though quite frankly even I am seeing the merits of it in this case. But the question becomes, is segregating a race from the rest of a nation really going to solve problems, or cause more? If you pull aside every middle-eastern man, woman, and child but noone else... Thatd just make me more bitter, to see everyone else being treated with dignity and respect except me and my family. Im pretty sure thats the reason for screening randomly everyone who goes in and out of an airport.


And as for the ridiculous hijacking devices. Toothbrushes can be made into stabbing weapons by breaking the ends off. Chapstick can be made into dart guns. Keys can be made into slashing or stabbing weapons with realative ease. Its absolutely ludicrious some of the things theyre doing. I can see checking to see if someone has a large razor-blade in their shoe. But honestly. From a scientific standpoint, the C-4 explosive in the shoe: C4 can not be detonated by fire. C4 takes a large electrical charge to go off. Obviously if someone is sitting there fiddling with wires and a capacitor, theyre probably up to something. I think they just make people take off their shoes because they totally dropped the ball on that one, and theyre trying to cover their asses. But thats just my opinion on the issue. Either ban everything that could be construed to be a weapon (which is practically every tool/object known to man), or ban nothing but things which are actually weapons that could inflict serious harm. Which is pretty much guns and guns alone. Train the airport staff in a martial art, and you immediately eliminate the threat of every non-automatic projectile weapon that someone might manage to use on a plane. Youd save money in the long run from people dying, and youd save the general non-terrorist public from the hassle and sheer idiocy of having to remove their shoes every time they get on an airplane.
__________________

__________________
unforgettableFOXfire is offline  
Old 11-05-2002, 06:19 PM   #32
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 100
Local Time: 05:17 PM
Re: Biggest... Post... EVER!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ~unforgettableFOXfire~
Alright everyone, time for me to make another post here since the conversation has picked up again.

Garibaldo - Some of this is kinda for you, and kinda not. Its really to try and clear up any misconceptions that people are having, but its doing so from my point of view, which I try to keep pretty objective, but thats not always possible. Nothing I say is intended to be an attack on conservatives

, or Americans (again, Im very much appreciative of the US) but Im going to try to put things into a bigger picture. I picked up on some of the stuff you said, truth be told, it was because sometimes I find what you say kinda grates on me a little, Im a sucker for stress and punishment or something. However, I noticed that you had a lot of stuff which was very valid, and also very lighthearted at times (which suprised me, because yeah, I dont know you very well, and my limited experiance was a negative one at best, but I suppose its all in the interpretation of reading, perhaps it was sarcasm, or satire or something, who knows). Anyways, the last thing I want to do is start a big argument over this, its a place for discussion, and since we're being nice, Ill try to state what I have to say in an in-abbraisive manner, or as much as possible.

On with the post.

Hmm... So Ill attempt to clear some small things up as a Canadian and a Liberal-minded individual.

The whole idea of liberalism is the greatest good, for the greatest many people. Liberalism is about equality. To say that liberals are heartless without adequately qualifying that statement is very similar to calling Canada, Soviet Canuckistan, or as I am about to do, describe my experiance with the Conservatives of the world. To make a sweeping generalization, as I so often do to save myself pages and pages of explaination (again, this never going to be 100% true, 100% of the time, this is merely my experiance with most not all conservatives). Conservatives seem to be pro-helping people with money, and anti-helping people without it. Giving all the breaks to people who dont need it, didnt necessarily earn it legitimately, through time and effort, and all in all doing a successful job of screwing over the hard working lower classes. Pro-maintaining archaeic ways of life, resisting change, and scrutinizing those with radical ideas for mostly everything under the sun.


How ironic that you started your post by stating that none of this is an attack on conservatives. Do you really believe that? Surely you see this stuff as negative aspects of the conservative party. How can it not be an attack? You said that we're "Pro-maintaining archaeic ways of life". Hahaha...what the hell are you talking about?! You're fooling yourself.
This is a pretty eye-opening view of what liberals Canadians are really like. It's fairly shocking for me to read this. First, conservatives don't generally believe that liberals just want equality. I don't see affirmative action bringing equality. I see it as bringing disequality. For example, one of my friends from Emory was telling me that the GPAs for Asian applicants hovers around 3.7, Caucasians around 3.3-3.5 and African-Americans 3.0-3.2. With their style of affirmative action, an Asian candidate doesn't get a break because the other groups have statistically lower scores. They have to compete with the other Asian candidates at the 3.7 level, not with the group as a whole. Similarly, African-Americans don't need a 3.5 or above to gain admission. This is the kind of sickening inequality I attribute to liberals and their Machiavellian tactics. I also see liberals mischaracterizing and dehumanizing successful white businessmen in order to justify their theory that money is misdistributed because rich white guys have been stealing it from the poor, inheriting it from their fathers and not working to earn it. I think this couldn't be farther from the truth and it ignores the many people who went to college, built a business and made it a success from hard work. There are more self-made millionaires in the US now than ever before.
Business equals jobs! YOu can't pretend like Republicans are just giving money directly to CEO's without realizing that their businesses hire people when they expand and become more successful. The jobs often come with medical care, dental care, etc. How is it that liberals can introduce property taxes,a marriage tax,a death tax, income taxes, etc etc etc and then claim that they're the friends of the working man? It's ridiculous. They care about continuing their social programs to UNEQUALLY distribute money from the middle class and the rich to the poor.

People revolted against the US specifically, however that really wasnt the meaning of the attacks. On a grander scale, they were against the Western World that is 'oppressing' them - the figurehead of which, is America, most powerful nation on earth.

Do you even know who attacked the WTC? These people were radical extremists who reject Western values and their influence on Islam. Furthermore, many of them were very well off and did not attack America because they were "oppressed". They believe that our Jerry Springer way of life is directly opposed to the oppressive Taliban-style regimes that they want to impose to control virtue.


Define oppressing as you like, but suffice to say the developing nations really are treated like shit and exploited for what theyre worth. Anyways, when you have a vastly large majority of people living in the western world holding almost all of the world's wealth, but most of the worlds non-wealthy population living in the non-western countries, you get a very large ammount of segregation.

Why aren't the billions of poor in the world attacking us then? Maybe radical Islam has something to do with it hmmmmmm

Canada is a nice place to live because of the large ammount of acceptance and refuge that can be found here that cannot be found anywhere else. We're not the richest, sure, perhaps not financially, but culturally we are one of the best.

Damn, are all Canadians this arrogant? Imagine an American making this same statement, which would be just as justified in my opinion! They would attacked from ten different directions. Canada has almost NO influence in the world. You're economy is a joke. How can you even make a comparison between the complexity of Canada's issues and ours?

When a group of individuals is treated like shit for so long, theyre more than likely going to fight back, thusly all of the civil wars that people come to Canada in order to seek refuge from. On a global token, thus the attacks on the west.

Guess where the immigrants to the US are coming from? I'm here, in part, because of the Iranian revolution. There are a TON of refugees in the US. You're kidding yourself by pretending that Canada is the great safe haven of the world.

The September 11th attacks werent attacks on the States. Well, in the literal sense they were, but in the figurative sense the September 11th attacks were attacks on the decadent way of life of the West. However, thats not as noble as it might sound, since it was carried out by religious fanatic militia men who were propagandized into doing so. The US didnt deserve it, the West deserved it. The loss of life is not justified. Those groups do have a reason, though it is somewhat perverse in nature. Reason doesnt make it excusable, and a general need for come-uppance does not warrent an attack on a specific group, nor does it warrent a loss of life. I could say this till the cows come home, and people would still argue, but Ill just stop there.

You claim that you don't justify the attacks, but your first post said: "I'm sorry buddy but it wasnt our country that was attacked it was yours and good reasson we werent attacked, because not everyone hates us. We never trained the attackers how to fly, you did. We never let them into our country, you did. We didnt give Osama and the boys money years ago, you did."

In what world does this not sound like you're trying to justify the attacks?

Thats why I take the stand that I do, not because Im anti-american, and not because the conservatives are 'wrong' - because they arent in a lot of cases, but I do it because things would be so much better off if we could all put aside our own needs and think of someone else for a change.

First, you can't blame conservatives for so many problems, blame the US for letting terrorists in, training them to fly, etc etc and then pretend like you're a great diplomat by not placing any blame. I'm sure that you place the majority of the blame on conservatives for what happened because you think that this inequality between first and third world nations wouldn't exist or be so dramatic if the liberals had control of everything. Well, I don't see any of the socialist democratic European states doing a whole lot. Equality? Sure.

Canadians are pretty resillent, and while sure we do whine about this and that, we're generally too polite to open our mouths about it if and when theres a problem.

That's funny. You're government seems to be doing the speaking for you. How convenient. This post surely doesn't seem like you're polite at all. You're quite insulting, as a matter of fact.

I dont care that he called us whiners.

I called you a whiner. I didn't say all Canadians are whiners. Though, you're certainly not setting a good example.

Something like this happens, and its just an indication that perhaps some tighter security measure are in order to make sure that Bill on flight A isnt really Bill the Jihad Bomber en route to global devesatation.

I guarantee that any reasonable measure to find and identify Bill the Jihad Bomber will be opposed by liberals like yourself.

I still stand by the fact that I feel there is a better way for us to check for terrorists without 'racial profiling' everyone coming in to our countries. The fact that all the terrorists were of middle eastern heritage, doesnt really act as an excuse to soley screen them. Anyone, anywhere, at any time could stab you in the back, or for that matter climb on board a plane and destroy a national monument.

True. Is it more likely? No. That's why you go with the more likely group. See my tylenol analogy and think about. REALLY think about it.

And as for the ridiculous hijacking devices. Toothbrushes can be made into stabbing weapons by breaking the ends off. Chapstick can be made into dart guns. Keys can be made into slashing or stabbing weapons with realative ease.

Who would actually let a terrorist hijack a plane with a dart or "stabbing weapon" knowing what happened on 9-11. I'd certainly be willing to get up and attack the hijackers as would MANY others.

Either ban everything that could be construed to be a weapon (which is practically every tool/object known to man), or ban nothing but things which are actually weapons that could inflict serious harm. Which is pretty much guns and guns alone. Train the airport staff in a martial art, and you immediately eliminate the threat of every non-automatic projectile weapon that someone might manage to use on a plane. Youd save money in the long run from people dying, and youd save the general non-terrorist public from the hassle and sheer idiocy of having to remove their shoes every time they get on an airplane.

This is obviously a joke. Ban nothing or ban everything? Black and white only? Train the staff in martial arts? hahaha...good one.

This can't possibly be a representative sample of how liberal Canadians think. Liberals=good freedom fighters. Conservatives=greedy old white guys who oppress the poor and want us to live in the stone age. I think anyone who examined politics could find a ton of counter-examples to these rather childish generalizations about both parties.

You need to educate yourself and not rely on the standard far left-wing propaganda that everything can be broken down by a simplistic Marxist class-struggle analysis.
__________________

__________________
garibaldo is offline  
Old 11-05-2002, 07:28 PM   #33
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 12:17 PM
I have been thinking about this a lot. The most effective way to make certain that there is no profiling to make people happy is to have nude flights.

Think about it.........


Peace to all.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 11-05-2002, 07:46 PM   #34
us3
The Fly
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 165
Local Time: 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I have been thinking about this a lot. The most effective way to make certain that there is no profiling to make people happy is to have nude flights.

Think about it.........


Peace to all.

You never saw the movie Papillon!
__________________
us3 is offline  
Old 11-05-2002, 09:18 PM   #35
I serve MacPhisto
 
unforgettableFOXfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,053
Local Time: 12:17 PM
Re: Re: Biggest... Post... EVER!

How ironic that you started your post by stating that none of this is an attack on conservatives. Do you really believe that? Surely you see this stuff as negative aspects of the conservative party. How can it not be an attack? You said that we're "Pro-maintaining archaeic ways of life". Hahaha...what the hell are you talking about?! You're fooling yourself.

Negative can be a criticism and not an attack sometimes, especially when I say it was a fallacy to begin with. So, I felt those were the negatives, so apparently when I said that I wasnt looking for a battle, you thought I meant 'hey everyone, Im going to be an ass now'. I didnt state my opinion on all the GOOD things conservatives do/have done, because I didnt think it was necessary, as I already TRIED to clarify the fact that I wasnt attacking conservatism. Evidently though you cant seem to handle the fact that I was trying to be nice, and gave you so many statements that you could build upon.

Archeaic ways of life: ya know, things like women's sufferage, equality amongst race/religion, allowing people to think for themselves instead of being dominated by others, all those things which conservatives have resisted through time. Granted they dont resist them now (save for equality, which left to an ambiguous definition will always be a source of controversy). Things they still resist, attempts to bring equality in people by giving them standardized education, healthcare, etc. The shortcomings arent 'the neighbourhood' someone grew up in, the shortcomings are the government not spending enough money to ensure that equal means equal. Damn, spending money, what a rough concept, I mean thats not what its for or anything, acquiring what you need to improve your quality of life... oh wait, it is! And where does the government get its money? taxes.


This is a pretty eye-opening view of what liberals Canadians are really like. It's fairly shocking for me to read this. First, conservatives don't generally believe that liberals just want equality. I don't see affirmative action bringing equality.


I dont see affirmative action as bringing equality either. This is the case where I agree with you. The best job should go to the best qualified to do it. The positions in school should go to the ones who will be most likely to pass, most likely to move on to be productive members of society filling the role of, say engineer for example, as best as they can. I wouldnt want go into a building designed by someone who didnt know what they were doing, nor would I want to go into a building constructed by someone who didnt have the capability to do it properly.



Business equals jobs! YOu can't pretend like Republicans are just giving money directly to CEO's without realizing that their businesses hire people when they expand and become more successful. The jobs often come with medical care, dental care, etc. How is it that liberals can introduce property taxes,a marriage tax,a death tax, income taxes, etc etc etc and then claim that they're the friends of the working man? It's ridiculous. They care about continuing their social programs to UNEQUALLY distribute money from the middle class and the rich to the poor.

I have no argument regarding business equals jobs. A strong economy is integral to the success of modern society. Even Vladmir Lenin knew that and he was a marxist. There are so many problems with social services, but you cant leave people out on the streets to fend for themselves. It would be inhumane to just let them starve and die in the streets, what initiatives would you put in place to prevent this? Id like to hear how youd settle this. More police officers, jails, lawyers, judges, fancy security systems on houses? Im quite interested in hearing how youd resolve the widespread poverty that it would cause if you didnt help people. Where do you draw the line on who gets help and who doesnt? And where are you going to get the money to institue the solution? Thats what taxes are for. I agree that certain taxes go too far. But when you have X million dollars, just how much of it do you need to live? The thing that pisses me off about the conservative government here in ontario is they lowered the taxes for the uppermost tax bracket, and raised the two lowest ones. That doesnt at all jive with me. Sure, lets take money from those who need it the most.

Do you even know who attacked the WTC? These people were radical extremists who reject Western values and their influence on Islam. Furthermore, many of them were very well off and did not attack America because they were "oppressed". They believe that our Jerry Springer way of life is directly opposed to the oppressive Taliban-style regimes that they want to impose to control virtue.

Yeah, did I not later go on to say 'extremists' later on? wtf are you on about? I know damn well what happened and Id appreciate it if you didnt mock me about something thats right there in black and white if youd just take the time to read it. You went off on a conservative rant about everything, and entirely ignored everything which I said upfront. Maybe I need to write a political manuscript about how I like this about conservativism but here are my criticisms and get it published under the republican name before you have anything good to say let alone remotely valid. I do agree with some of your points but here you are ranting and raving like Im completely in the dark. If you want me to go back and find my exact quote where I called them 'propagandised extremists', I will.



Why aren't the billions of poor in the world attacking us then? Maybe radical Islam has something to do with it hmmmmmm


I dunno, the fact that maybe some of them are content living a minimalist life, like those who practice zen buddhism, its not like thats a few billion right there. Then theres the fact that any uprising from the population of a country is immediately fought off by the military who is equiped vastly better because they actually have funding. And if the military fails and the government falls under attack, suddenly theyre 'guerrila warriors' or 'terrorists' or 'anarchists' or whatever you want to call it, and then the UN doesnt mind its own business in the matter and sends in external military to take down the revolutionaries. Hmm, africa, bosnia, what other examples do you need? islamic extremists betrayed by the americans after vietnam who need vengeance? theyre not even poor, though theyre fighting for their ideal way of life - and since it conflicts with that of the US, it must be crushed, like communist russia.

Damn, are all Canadians this arrogant? Imagine an American making this same statement, which would be just as justified in my opinion! They would attacked from ten different directions. Canada has almost NO influence in the world. You're economy is a joke. How can you even make a comparison between the complexity of Canada's issues and ours?

Im not being arrogant, thats solid fact. They do surveys on these sort of things, richest nation, UN rates them on best places to live, etc. Im not pulling things out of my ass here, so get your head out of yours. Canada has a lot of problems, we DO depend on the US too much, our politicians cant stand up for themselves in the world forum. Canada doesnt have any external issues because we have the US here to protect us. Our economy is crap cuz the US economy is down. Mind you, 15 years ago, your economy is where ours is now, so how about you keep in mind 'hey, things can change' and get on with your life instead of focusing on how crappy canada is.


Guess where the immigrants to the US are coming from? I'm here, in part, because of the Iranian revolution. There are a TON of refugees in the US. You're kidding yourself by pretending that Canada is the great safe haven of the world.

I never denied the fact that the US is a great place for people to go, if I neglected to say that people go to the US (which Im sure I alluded to when I was talking about Canada, US, Mexico all being along sparsely defended borders). Canada is a safehaven, as is the united states. I suggest that when you argue, if you want ME to take what YOU have to say serious, since you seem to think Im a joke, that you DONT simply omit facts that would punch a hole in your argument.


You claim that you don't justify the attacks, but your first post said: "I'm sorry buddy but it wasnt our country that was attacked it was yours and good reasson we werent attacked, because not everyone hates us. We never trained the attackers how to fly, you did. We never let them into our country, you did. We didnt give Osama and the boys money years ago, you did."

In what world does this not sound like you're trying to justify the attacks?


If you look through my first post. I never said anywhere what you quoted. That was someone else, and Id thank you not to use what someone else said as an argument against what I said because I dont at all agree with the statement there. Not everyone hates us, true. We didnt train them, true. We didnt give them the money, true. We didnt let them in, wrong. And thats the issue here, its not 'the cause of sept 11', its about border security. Stick to the topic. I was saying we do need tighter security because we didnt do anything to stop them from getting in.


First, you can't blame conservatives for so many problems, blame the US for letting terrorists in, training them to fly, etc etc and then pretend like you're a great diplomat by not placing any blame. I'm sure that you place the majority of the blame on conservatives for what happened because you think that this inequality between first and third world nations wouldn't exist or be so dramatic if the liberals had control of everything. Well, I don't see any of the socialist democratic European states doing a whole lot. Equality? Sure.

I didnt blame the US for letting terrorists in, I blame both Canada and the US for that. Using historical fact, I blame Britain, France, and Germany. Theyre the ones who fucked up Africa, theyre the ones who caused the world wars which put the US into the drivers seat of the world. Theyre the ones who looked to the US to fix all their problems when everything was said and done. I dont blame the US for it, I dont blame the conservatives. I dont at all blame conservatives for the terrorism either, despite what you may think since Im apparently so anti-conservative that party leaders everywhere are cringing and vomitting in terror. I do think the segregation between first and third world nations is the cause, but not conservatives nor liberals would be able to instantly make it all go away. It takes time for people to change, time for people to accept a little less in their own pocket and a little more in the pockets of someone a half a world away. Far too many people would resist it. I think a solution needs to be found and implemented, but I didnt say I had all the answers. I certainly didnt say that it was the US's responsibility to do it all themselves either. The US holds a great deal more power in the big8 then anyone else, and if anythings going to be done, the US needs to take the first step and say 'hey, theres an issue that needs to be resolved, lets get this done, no bullshit, no excuses, just do it for the betterment of our world'. If they dont, noone else will. Youve proven the fact that the world would just laugh at Canadian idealism, our government sure as shit isnt going to do it, we cant seem to elect an official with balls enough.


That's funny. You're government seems to be doing the speaking for you. How convenient. This post surely doesn't seem like you're polite at all. You're quite insulting, as a matter of fact.

I cant vote yet, but when I can youll be damn sure I elect someone who actually gets the job done instead of sitting on his hands. My government doesnt represent me at all. I hate the british, the queen is our head of government, that rubs me the wrong way right there. Our politicians accomplish nothing. Our politicians do nothing but sit back and let the world outside us pass by without question. I cant stand it.

Youre definitely one to talk though. Granted you never said you were polite. But did I ever insult you specifically? No. Did I make sweeping generalizations about conservativism? Yes. Ones which I specifically said were untrue? Oh, yes, wait, thats the clincher right there. You take too much offense to a general statement that I already stated was a fallacy. The only comment I made about you, Garibaldo, was that I was suprised to see you were being lighthearted earlier, and that I obviously dont know you well enough to judge your character. Yet here you are freely judging me with very little basis whatsoever. I gave you that courtesy, yet you could not do so for me. But Im the rude one? If you think so, thats all well and good, but dont count me short without discussing first. Youre so militant about your beliefs, I made offers, I mean I said this is what I think, heres what I agree on, heres something semi-controversial. All I got was omission based counter-arguments, stuff that I agree with you on, and completely unbased insults.


I called you a whiner. I didn't say all Canadians are whiners. Though, you're certainly not setting a good example.

Tell me specifically where I was whining in my second post (not my first post), and Ill happily rescind my comment. You were talking to another poster when you made that comment, if I recall correctly, but I felt the need to comment on it in my second post, because not all Canadians are whiners. Youre right, you didnt say it, but that was exactly what I was trying to get across, some individuals may whine, but on the whole we tend not to.


I guarantee that any reasonable measure to find and identify Bill the Jihad Bomber will be opposed by liberals like yourself.

Again, I reiterate that steps are necessary, and until I have a choice that I can make, either one way or another, Im opposed to that one because I think a better alternative can be found. As I went on to say in my last post, such as screening everyone instead of screening all people of middle-eastern descent.

True. Is it more likely? No. That's why you go with the more likely group. See my tylenol analogy and think about. REALLY think about it.

Ill have to go back and look at it, I must not have seen that part. Ill read it and perhaps give you my comments on it.



Who would actually let a terrorist hijack a plane with a dart or "stabbing weapon" knowing what happened on 9-11. I'd certainly be willing to get up and attack the hijackers as would MANY others.

Very true. Thats exactly the point. Which is why its absurd to confiscate peoples belongings that arent even weapons.



This is obviously a joke. Ban nothing or ban everything? Black and white only? Train the staff in martial arts? hahaha...good one.

This can't possibly be a representative sample of how liberal Canadians think. Liberals=good freedom fighters. Conservatives=greedy old white guys who oppress the poor and want us to live in the stone age. I think anyone who examined politics could find a ton of counter-examples to these rather childish generalizations about both parties.

You need to educate yourself and not rely on the standard far left-wing propaganda that everything can be broken down by a simplistic Marxist class-struggle analysis.


Yes, it was a joke. However the martial arts training was a legitimate and cost effective way of preventing hijackings, as well as any assaults/attacks that might occur on airport staff while trying to take someone into custody. What would you suggest? Give all the flight attendants guns? Because noones going to exploit that, 'hi, Im a flight attendant, please give me a gun so I can get on this plane, no I dont follow an extremist middle eastern sect, of course I wont hijack it myself or find myself disarmed by several large men who will then promptly hijack the plane themselves'. Anyone who thinks martial arts is a joke, obviously hasnt seen a blackbelt martial arts competetion, or tried to fight someone who has their third level of belt or more (third level because the colours arent uniform to all martial arts).

And yes, lots of counter arguements could be made to making those generalizations. Which, for the umpteenth time, were a false but fast way of getting off a few quick ideas. Its true that I dont understand the ins and outs of american politics. I know that. I dont contest that. But Id appreciate, that when I try to start a legitimate conversation, that I am not confronted by childish insults about how my country is, and how I am, when you obviously know nothing about me nor my country simply by what Ive said in one instance, and suddenly youre completely right and everything is true. And since thats obviously going to come back and bite me in the ass. I stand by my statement about omitting facts and misquoting for the sake of 'winning' an argument. If you want me to take you seriously, even when you dont take me seriously, dont try and pull that stuff, cuz I know what I said, and I know where to find it if you should try to say Im wrong. That goes for everyone.


Now then. Everyone out there in my thread. There is a way to have an intelligent discussion, and there is a way to simply offend everyone and cause nothing but tension and arguments. I sincerely tried to avoid the latter, and will continue to do so, and will ask people here to please refrain from shooting insults back and forth. I, for one, did not come here to be insulted. I did not come here to be preached to about right to freedom of speach. And I did not come here to be told how it is by someone who assumes that I have no idea whatsoever about what Im trying to talk about. If you dont want a discussion. Dont post. Simple as that. If you have something meaningful to contribute, do so. If you have criticisms, make them without out and out insulting someone. I admit that I may not do the best at controlling my temper, especially when it comes to politics. But at least try. Even if you dont like me, or what I have to say. Do it for the mods. Itd make their life so much easier if they didnt have to monitor a bunch of people bickering like little kids.

[edit - to fix bold tags]
__________________
unforgettableFOXfire is offline  
Old 11-05-2002, 09:39 PM   #36
Refugee
 
bonoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Edmonton, Canada- Charlestown, Ireland
Posts: 1,398
Local Time: 10:17 AM
Garibaldi, amybe you should read the name at the top of ppl's post because myself, BONOMAN, should i say it again, BONOMAN, is not the same person as unforgettableFOXfire~ not the same. Even though you would like to think we are how you keep using qoutes from both of us and trying to created the evil canadian.

First off you said i was a liberal, fuck thats the funniest thing i have ever heard. If you knew me half as weel as you think you do you would know that thats fartherest from the truth. Liberals, conservitives, reforms, NDP, green parties, their all the same a bunch of old white men who look out for themselves and their wallets or who's putting money into that wallet. I love politcs but hate politicians and party lines.

I believe that when a country, any country, says that anyone from six countries could be photographed finger printed, and questioned and if they think they are terrorists can send them pack to their orignal place of birth. Sorry but if you decided to come to Canada, god forbid, and i found you to be kinda terroristy and i said nope buddy your not coming in, oh and your not going back to the US your going back to Iran. I guess you would think this is something that needs to be done so my country is safe. Well i'd like to inform you on something here the US doesnt own Canada. We make our own minds up. If we think our citizens might be deported because of your agenda we wont sit around. We will tell our citizens to not go to your country.

If Iraq said any American going to their country was to be photographed, finger printed and interviewed and if found to be a threat then they were to go back to their orignal place of birth, maybe Ireland or Columbia or anywhere. Dont you see how this policy is flawed.

Oh by the way this really has nothing to do with airline security. This is to be focused on the border. People using cars trains to cross the border. This isnt for airline saftey because if you remember people carry pasports already.

Oh and your little comment on our economy. Funny. Its real funny when all the big American compainies are doing more and moree business in Canada. You love our oil, our lumber, our fish, our fresh water but you hate us. Funny.

Oh and you know one more thing that funny?

The US is Canada's biggest trade partner.

Canada is the US's biggest trade partner.

That's why when the big american compainies steall millions from the public and the market goes south our's goes south.

Oh ya and you love doing films and TV here too.

Ah you love us dont you!!!
__________________
bonoman is offline  
Old 11-05-2002, 10:02 PM   #37
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Lilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: back and to the left
Posts: 8,523
Local Time: 11:17 AM
Normal this thread is loooooooong

Quote:
Originally posted by bonoman

Ah you love us dont you!!!

I do!
__________________
Lilly is offline  
Old 11-06-2002, 01:37 AM   #38
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 100
Local Time: 05:17 PM
Re: Re: Re: Biggest... Post... EVER!

First, let me start by saying that I apologize for mixing up Bonoman's statements with UnforgettableFOXFire's. What can I say? Liberals all start to sound the same after a while

Ok, let's go!

Negative can be a criticism and not an attack sometimes, especially when I say it was a fallacy to begin with. So, I felt those were the negatives, so apparently when I said that I wasnt looking for a battle, you thought I meant 'hey everyone, Im going to be an ass now'. I didnt state my opinion on all the GOOD things conservatives do/have done, because I didnt think it was necessary, as I already TRIED to clarify the fact that I wasnt attacking conservatism. Evidently though you cant seem to handle the fact that I was trying to be nice, and gave you so many statements that you could build upon.

Archeaic ways of life: ya know, things like women's sufferage, equality amongst race/religion, allowing people to think for themselves instead of being dominated by others, all those things which conservatives have resisted through time. Granted they dont resist them now (save for equality, which left to an ambiguous definition will always be a source of controversy). Things they still resist, attempts to bring equality in people by giving them standardized education, healthcare, etc.


Oh jeebus. Ok, you said that conservatives support archaic policies and have done so in the past and then also say that liberals want equality. Why juxtapose those two things? Why not start by saying something positive about conservatives as well if your purpose was not to attack conservatism? Why go on the whole rant about working for the rich, screwing the poor, supporting inequality and archaic policies if that's not your aim? I think that is your aim (whether you have the guts to admit it). To think that it shouldn't offend me, a conservative, personally is silly.

EXAMPLE
Hey, I think blacks and women are silly. Blacks steal stuff and women are all sluts. BUT! I don't want to attack African-Americans or women AND anyone out there who's a black or a woman (or both) shouldn't take it personally.

Do you see how stupid that sounds? That's what it sounds like to me. I take your comments personally, because they portray me as heartless and misguided to be a conservative.

The shortcomings arent 'the neighbourhood' someone grew up in, the shortcomings are the government not spending enough money to ensure that equal means equal. Damn, spending money, what a rough concept, I mean thats not what its for or anything, acquiring what you need to improve your quality of life... oh wait, it is! And where does the government get its money? taxes.

Where do those taxes come from? From trees? You can't vote yet, so I'm assuming that you're young (and that partly explains why you're so left-wing) and don't understand what property, income, state, local taxes mean to working families. People hate taxes for a reason. Why not work on making government efficient? Is that so bad?

I have no argument regarding business equals jobs. A strong economy is integral to the success of modern society. Even Vladmir Lenin knew that and he was a marxist. There are so many problems with social services, but you cant leave people out on the streets to fend for themselves. It would be inhumane to just let them starve and die in the streets, what initiatives would you put in place to prevent this? Id like to hear how youd settle this. More police officers, jails, lawyers, judges, fancy security systems on houses? Im quite interested in hearing how youd resolve the widespread poverty that it would cause if you didnt help people. Where do you draw the line on who gets help and who doesnt?

I can't say that I have the magical solution to poverty. Clearly adding more funding to welfare does nothing more than make more people children of the state. I'm not opposed to some baseline programs so these people don't starve to death. However, these people are going NOWHERE until jobs are made available. How is this going to happen when Democrats have made themselves the enemy of business time and time again? Why is our government so mismanaged and inefficient? Why not get the money from there instead of the rich. I know they're easy targets, but give it a chance.

Why aren't the billions of poor in the world attacking us then? Maybe radical Islam has something to do with it hmmmmmm

I dunno, the fact that maybe some of them are content living a minimalist life, like those who practice zen buddhism, its not like thats a few billion right there. Then theres the fact that any uprising from the population of a country is immediately fought off by the military who is equiped vastly better because they actually have funding. And if the military fails and the government falls under attack, suddenly theyre 'guerrila warriors' or 'terrorists' or 'anarchists' or whatever you want to call it, and then the UN doesnt mind its own business in the matter and sends in external military to take down the revolutionaries. Hmm, africa, bosnia, what other examples do you need? islamic extremists betrayed by the americans after vietnam who need vengeance? theyre not even poor, though theyre fighting for their ideal way of life - and since it conflicts with that of the US, it must be crushed, like communist russia.


How does putting down popular uprisings prevent them from coming here and setting a bomb or killing people like the sniper did? Are you defending the people who caused uprisings in all the UN fights? Do you even the know the history behind any of these events to generalize about who deserves to be put down and who doesn't? I think this is just more of that classic neoliberal multiculturalism. Everything is the same if you look at it from a different perspective, right? Everything is relative...NOT!

Im not being arrogant, thats solid fact. They do surveys on these sort of things, richest nation, UN rates them on best places to live, etc. Im not pulling things out of my ass here, so get your head out of yours. Canada has a lot of problems, we DO depend on the US too much, our politicians cant stand up for themselves in the world forum. Canada doesnt have any external issues because we have the US here to protect us. Our economy is crap cuz the US economy is down. Mind you, 15 years ago, your economy is where ours is now, so how about you keep in mind 'hey, things can change' and get on with your life instead of focusing on how crappy canada is.

UN ratings mean absolutely nothing to me. Of course a liberal organization like the UN is going to rate a benign and liberal place like Canada fairly well. Does that mean anything to me? Nope. I'm not even concerned with how crappy Canada is. I'm concerned with how crappy your arguement is.

I never denied the fact that the US is a great place for people to go, if I neglected to say that people go to the US (which Im sure I alluded to when I was talking about Canada, US, Mexico all being along sparsely defended borders). Canada is a safehaven, as is the united states. I suggest that when you argue, if you want ME to take what YOU have to say serious, since you seem to think Im a joke, that you DONT simply omit facts that would punch a hole in your argument.

Omitting facts!? Hahaha...how ironic that you would say. Who causally makes ridiculous generalizations without an eye for history? Hmmmm....liberals love equality. Conservatives love evil. Muhahaha

If you look through my first post. I never said anywhere what you quoted. That was someone else, and Id thank you not to use what someone else said as an argument against what I said because I dont at all agree with the statement there. Not everyone hates us, true. We didnt train them, true. We didnt give them the money, true. We didnt let them in, wrong. And thats the issue here, its not 'the cause of sept 11', its about border security. Stick to the topic. I was saying we do need tighter security because we didnt do anything to stop them from getting in.

Again, sorry about mixing these two posts up. If you want to stop people from entering the country. Why not try to narrow down the pool by the most logical factor?

I cant vote yet, but when I can youll be damn sure I elect someone who actually gets the job done instead of sitting on his hands. My government doesnt represent me at all. I hate the british, the queen is our head of government, that rubs me the wrong way right there. Our politicians accomplish nothing. Our politicians do nothing but sit back and let the world outside us pass by without question. I cant stand it.

You think I'm being mean? You think I'm bashing Canadians? At least I didn't bring up all that! I've been relatively nice.

Youre definitely one to talk though. Granted you never said you were polite. But did I ever insult you specifically? No.

You insulted me non-specifically. Still an insult.

Ones which I specifically said were untrue? Oh, yes, wait, thats the clincher right there. You take too much offense to a general statement that I already stated was a fallacy.

How did you make it clear that everything you stated was a fallacy. The small statement that it's not 100% true? What is 100% true in politics? Why put it down at all if you don't believe that?


The only comment I made about you, Garibaldo, was that I was suprised to see you were being lighthearted earlier, and that I obviously dont know you well enough to judge your character. Yet here you are freely judging me with very little basis whatsoever. I gave you that courtesy, yet you could not do so for me. But Im the rude one? If you think so, thats all well and good, but dont count me short without discussing first. Youre so militant about your beliefs, I made offers, I mean I said this is what I think, heres what I agree on, heres something semi-controversial. All I got was omission based counter-arguments, stuff that I agree with you on, and completely unbased insults.

If you want to play the holier than thou role, don't start your post off with insults against my political side. It's common sense.

I called you a whiner. I didn't say all Canadians are whiners. Though, you're certainly not setting a good example.

Tell me specifically where I was whining in my second post (not my first post), and Ill happily rescind my comment. You were talking to another poster when you made that comment, if I recall correctly, but I felt the need to comment on it in my second post, because not all Canadians are whiners. Youre right, you didnt say it, but that was exactly what I was trying to get across, some individuals may whine, but on the whole we tend not to.


Almost every post by liberals about conservatives, US policy and politics in general sounds like whining to me. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

Again, I reiterate that steps are necessary, and until I have a choice that I can make, either one way or another, Im opposed to that one because I think a better alternative can be found. As I went on to say in my last post, such as screening everyone instead of screening all people of middle-eastern descent.

You mistakenly believe that we can "screen" everyone. That's impossible. If you want a better alternative, come up with one. Call liberal headquarters and tell them to get working on it.

Yes, it was a joke. However the martial arts training was a legitimate and cost effective way of preventing hijackings, as well as any assaults/attacks that might occur on airport staff while trying to take someone into custody. What would you suggest? Give all the flight attendants guns? Because noones going to exploit that, 'hi, Im a flight attendant, please give me a gun so I can get on this plane, no I dont follow an extremist middle eastern sect, of course I wont hijack it myself or find myself disarmed by several large men who will then promptly hijack the plane themselves'. Anyone who thinks martial arts is a joke, obviously hasnt seen a blackbelt martial arts competetion, or tried to fight someone who has their third level of belt or more (third level because the colours arent uniform to all martial arts).

And yes, lots of counter arguements could be made to making those generalizations. Which, for the umpteenth time, were a false but fast way of getting off a few quick ideas. Its true that I dont understand the ins and outs of american politics. I know that. I dont contest that. But Id appreciate, that when I try to start a legitimate conversation, that I am not confronted by childish insults about how my country is, and how I am, when you obviously know nothing about me nor my country simply by what Ive said in one instance, and suddenly youre completely right and everything is true.


Martial arts for flight attendants? Are you insane? It takes years to learn martial arts. Will this be a job requirement? You must be able to serve soda on a shaky platform and disarm a man with an uzi? Muhahaha They're flight attendants, not security guards! That aisle is like two feet wide! Rock beats scissor and guns beat martial arts!

Now then. Everyone out there in my thread. There is a way to have an intelligent discussion, and there is a way to simply offend everyone and cause nothing but tension and arguments. I sincerely tried to avoid the latter, and will continue to do so, and will ask people here to please refrain from shooting insults back and forth. I, for one, did not come here to be insulted.

You started your arguement with:
"Conservatives seem to be pro-helping people with money, and anti-helping people without it. Giving all the breaks to people who dont need it, didnt necessarily earn it legitimately, through time and effort, and all in all doing a successful job of screwing over the hard working lower classes. Pro-maintaining archaeic ways of life, resisting change, and scrutinizing those with radical ideas for mostly everything under the sun. The last time I checked, that was one of the causes of the French Revolution. In turn, the American Revolution."

You can't say all that and then try to say that it's okay to say that because you acknowledge that it's not always true just so a counter-arguement can't be made. Your arguements are childish and you mischaracterize millions of people in this country (not just rich white guys and hicks in the South).

You're obviously very young and perhaps overly idealistic and confused. Don't confuse conservatives here with conservatives in Canada or elsewhere. WE have a lot of flavors of conservatives here. Also, don't try to take the high ground in an arguement where you contributed the gas for the fire.
__________________
garibaldo is offline  
Old 11-06-2002, 01:48 AM   #39
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 100
Local Time: 05:17 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bonoman
Garibaldi, amybe you should read the name at the top of ppl's post because myself, BONOMAN, should i say it again, BONOMAN, is not the same person as unforgettableFOXfire~ not the same. Even though you would like to think we are how you keep using qoutes from both of us and trying to created the evil canadian.

First off you said i was a liberal, fuck thats the funniest thing i have ever heard. If you knew me half as weel as you think you do you would know that thats fartherest from the truth. Liberals, conservitives, reforms, NDP, green parties, their all the same a bunch of old white men who look out for themselves and their wallets or who's putting money into that wallet. I love politcs but hate politicians and party lines.


Who are you kidding? If it talks like a liberal and walks like a liberal....

I believe that when a country, any country, says that anyone from six countries could be photographed finger printed, and questioned and if they think they are terrorists can send them pack to their orignal place of birth. Sorry but if you decided to come to Canada, god forbid, and i found you to be kinda terroristy and i said nope buddy your not coming in, oh and your not going back to the US your going back to Iran. I guess you would think this is something that needs to be done so my country is safe.

Well i'd like to inform you on something here the US doesnt own Canada. We make our own minds up. If we think our citizens might be deported because of your agenda we wont sit around. We will tell our citizens to not go to your country.


I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm talking about sensible policy for the US and how Canada should not warn people entering our country to beware for their safety because it's untrue that they're at risk. I would never be denied admission to a country because I look "terroristy". If I was denied based on something important in my background, so be it! How can your citizens be deported back to their country if they come here? Won't they go back to Canada?

Wait a minute....we don't own Canada? What the hell? I can't believe it!

If Iraq said any American going to their country was to be photographed, finger printed and interviewed and if found to be a threat then they were to go back to their orignal place of birth, maybe Ireland or Columbia or anywhere. Dont you see how this policy is flawed.

Ummmm....no, I don't see how it's flawed. Iraq don't deport people who are there to bomb their country. They arrest those people and usually kill them. In fact, they'll deport, arrest or kill people for opposing the administration of that country. That doesn't happen here.

Oh and your little comment on our economy. Funny. Its real funny when all the big American compainies are doing more and moree business in Canada. You love our oil, our lumber, our fish, our fresh water but you hate us. Funny.
Oh and you know one more thing that funny?

The US is Canada's biggest trade partner.

Canada is the US's biggest trade partner.

That's why when the big american compainies steall millions from the public and the market goes south our's goes south.

Oh ya and you love doing films and TV here too.

Ah you love us dont you!!!


Dear God, you Canadians seem to have national self-esteem issue. We tolerate you. You depend on our products too. Movies and TV are mostly produced here and you WATCH THEM. You love us, don't you? Don't you!?
__________________
garibaldo is offline  
Old 11-06-2002, 01:56 AM   #40
Refugee
 
bonoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Edmonton, Canada- Charlestown, Ireland
Posts: 1,398
Local Time: 10:17 AM
Who are you kidding? If it talks like a liberal and walks like a liberal....

Well the best person to tell you who i am is me. If you cant believe me about where i fall in the political circle then who can you believe?


I have no idea what you're talking about

Then why the fuck are you in this disscusion. This is what we are talking about!!! This is what Pat is bitching about. Go and read an article about it. www.ctv.ca or www.cbc.ca GO NOW BEFORE YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING YOU HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT.

Dear God, you Canadians seem to have national self-esteem issue. We tolerate you. You depend on our products too. Movies and TV are mostly produced here and you WATCH THEM. You love us, don't you? Don't you!?

Ya you tolerate us. But you try to get everything out of us that you need. You dont tolerate(ok i'm gonna stop using 'you' because i know enough americans and none of them are as arrogent and senseless as yourself) America doesnt tolerate us, they work with us just as what has happened.

Should i not be allowed into Britain because i support Sinn Fein and to a certain degree the IRA?

Oh ya and by the way the thing everyone here is talking about that you have no idea what it is. Well the US gov't backed down and took Canada's advice and stopped what they were doing.
__________________
bonoman is offline  
Old 11-06-2002, 02:00 AM   #41
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 10:17 AM

Arun told me Canada was the Us' 51st state but the Queen just hasnt told em yet

DB9
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 11-06-2002, 02:28 AM   #42
Refugee
 
bonoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Edmonton, Canada- Charlestown, Ireland
Posts: 1,398
Local Time: 10:17 AM
Get it straight you are the 13th provience but clinton didnt tell ya yet!
__________________
bonoman is offline  
Old 11-06-2002, 05:08 AM   #43
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 100
Local Time: 05:17 PM
Well the best person to tell you who i am is me. If you cant believe me about where i fall in the political circle then who can you believe?

I'll believe my own senses and experience. No conservatives rattle off lefty-lists like this:

"I'm sorry buddy but it wasnt our country that was attacked it was yours and good reasson we werent attacked, because not everyone hates us. We never trained the attackers how to fly, you did. We never let them into our country, you did. We didnt give Osama and the boys money years ago, you did. We did, however, let all the planes land in our country on 9/11. We did stand behind you in your war on terror. We did lose troops in the war on terror via your troops. We did speak out againist a policy that we seen as racial."

Lefties seem to train themselves to recite the "wrongdoings of the great Satan" like school kids recite the pledge of the allegiance.

I'm just calling a spade a spade. Sheesh.

I have no idea what you're talking about?

Then why the fuck are you in this disscusion. This is what we are talking about!!! This is what Pat is bitching about. Go and read an article about it. www.ctv.ca or www.cbc.ca GO NOW BEFORE YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING YOU HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT.


I had no idea what you're talking about because you posted this:
"I believe that when a country, any country, says that anyone from six countries could be photographed finger printed, and questioned and if they think they are terrorists can send them pack to their orignal place of birth. I guess you would think this is something that needs to be done so my country is safe. Well i'd like to inform you on something here the US doesnt own Canada. We make our own minds up. If we think our citizens might be deported because of your agenda we wont sit around. We will tell our citizens to not go to your country."

You see the first line in that? Does that make sense to you? I'm not sure if you were saying that you believe that any country that decided to fingerprint and question people from certain countries
"can send them pack to their orignal place of birth" or if that was something this country might do to those people and then you left the thought unfinished. You need to learn how to craft a proper sentence. That's part of why I was confused.

Then you said: "Sorry but if you decided to come to Canada, god forbid, and i found you to be kinda terroristy and i said nope buddy your not coming in, oh and your not going back to the US your going back to Iran."

Why the hell would Canada be able to tell me that I'm not going back to the US, I'm going back to Iran? If I was coming from the US, how can I be sent to Iran? Wouldn't I just have to remain in the US?

Then you said: "We make our own minds up. If we think our citizens might be deported because of your agenda we wont sit around. We will tell our citizens to not go to your country."

Ok, so if someone is denied admission to this country from Canada, they'll just remain in Canada. If they enter the country and then subsequently get deported for whatever reason, then won't they just return to Canada? What's this about not sitting around and letting your citizens be deported? Won't they be U.S. residents (or maybe even citizens) if they come to live here and no longer your citizens? Why be concerned about the ultimate fate of someone with has ties to terrorist organizations if their worst fate is returning to your country (not that being deported to Canada isn't a horrible thing )??

So, as you should be able to clearly see, your arguement is vague and silly. That's why I was confused. I know it's convenient for you to take a cheap shot. Most people prefer to actually make a valid arguement. It's a matter of personal preference.

Dear God, you Canadians seem to have national self-esteem issue. We tolerate you. You depend on our products too. Movies and TV are mostly produced here and you WATCH THEM. You love us, don't you? Don't you!?

Ya you tolerate us. But you try to get everything out of us that you need. You dont tolerate(ok i'm gonna stop using 'you' because i know enough americans and none of them are as arrogent and senseless as yourself) America doesnt tolerate us, they work with us just as what has happened.

Please don't try to group Canada along with the other third-world countries that we're supposedly screwing over on a daily basis. It's a mutual relationship and you know it. We're not abusing Canada.

Should i not be allowed into Britain because i support Sinn Fein and to a certain degree the IRA?

If you were shown to be a part of these groups or support their cause through donations, then YES!

Oh ya and by the way the thing everyone here is talking about that you have no idea what it is. Well the US gov't backed down and took Canada's advice and stopped what they were doing.

I hope I made it clear why I was confused. It was due to your silly arguement. I'm fully aware of the issues. Let's not assume that the US governs by Canada's suggestions. Again, self-esteem issues....deal with them, please.
__________________
garibaldo is offline  
Old 11-06-2002, 05:21 AM   #44
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 04:17 AM
Hope this has deteriorated enough for ya'll. It has for me.
__________________

__________________
<a href=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com