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Old 06-04-2007, 06:32 PM   #46
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What a bastard - and since Christians are monotheists I don't think changing the message half way through wipes away earlier words and deeds.
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Old 06-04-2007, 06:33 PM   #47
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"hating the sin, loving the sinner" is perfectly fine

hating is never fine

hate is poison
I agree.
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Old 06-04-2007, 06:34 PM   #48
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What a bastard - and since Christians are monotheists I don't think changing the message half way through wipes away earlier words and deeds.
Now you're name calling?

Where did the message change half way through. You've lost me.
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Old 06-04-2007, 06:45 PM   #49
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Name calling God, who goes from a genocidal divinity to the embodiment of good between the OT and NT; I wouldn't buy it.
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Old 06-04-2007, 06:51 PM   #50
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The nature of God isn't easy to understand, but it is. It's the same God in the two testaments. The people in the OT you're referring to were the most detestable of sinners who were considered evil. He's the same God who sent Christ to do the dirty work for us — die for our sins — and then allows us to overcome our sins, or be forgiven, through that sacrifice. Sounds like a loving God to me. Also, keep in mind, Christ spoke more about judgement than anyone.
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Old 06-04-2007, 06:59 PM   #51
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It seems like a being that is willing to run a campaign of genocide to ensure it's interests are seen to and then after the fact bind the rest of humanity in servitude with a blood debt.
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Old 06-04-2007, 07:05 PM   #52
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do you still think the sun revolves around the earth?

Yeah, I believe the Son revolves and spins this universe.
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Old 06-04-2007, 07:11 PM   #53
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It seems like a being that is willing to run a campaign of genocide to ensure it's interests are seen to and then after the fact bind the rest of humanity in servitude with a blood debt.
I can see how you see it that way, but it's not exactly like that. First of all, God's interest is us. He doesn't need us for anything, but he created us out of love. It's like anything that's created.
Secondly, Christ's work on the cross was done out of grace. All that we have to do is accept that he did it. He requires nothing more, and then, it's up to us to believe in it anyway.
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Old 06-04-2007, 07:15 PM   #54
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If his interest is in "us" then why did he want some of "us" to kill others of "us" to ensure that a monotheistic philosophy could survive - hypothetically if these myths happened - when the Israelites wipe out those other tribes living in Canaan. Wouldn't a few showy miracles have shown infidels the way?
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Old 06-04-2007, 07:16 PM   #55
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Ok, before we go too far in questioning the character of God(the judeo-christian version), why don't we try to see it from God's perspective. Try to pretend that you are a great creator who has created beings that can think, reason and love others. Pretend that your desire was for them to treat each other with respect, honor and kindness. Pretend that your desire was to interact with them. But, like a science experiment gone horribly wrong, they turned away from you. They spit in your face, disobeyed the laws you had set up to protect them, and appeared to get joy in harming others.
Hoping to get them to turn back to you and your ways, you disciplined them like a father does to a child. When they still didn't listen, you punished them...trying to get their attention. Finally, you realized that your going to have to kneel down with them, see things through their eyes. To me...this is the progression of God's relationship with man that I see in the OT to New Testament.

Also, God didn't just try to get Israel's attention. Jonah is written to the Ninevites...and two other OT books focus on Ninevah, a land that was not populated by Israelites...
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Old 06-04-2007, 08:13 PM   #56
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Maybe Christ didn't say the word hate, but the OT tells us God hates sin.
Yeah, so maybe He didn't.

What spiritual gymnastics Christians are capable of when they want to feel good about hating and discriminating in the name of Jesus.

How convenient that the OT allows you to hate (just like God!) and essentially disregard Jesus when you get uncomfortable with someone's different sexuality.

As a follow-up, tell me this, where does God allow you, personally, to do what He does? Oh let's say, for example, hate?
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Old 06-04-2007, 08:14 PM   #57
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why don't we try to see it from God's perspective.
Risky behavior at best. Assumptive and dangerous at worst.
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Old 06-04-2007, 08:55 PM   #58
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Er...the key word is "try". These suppositions are just based on my understanding of the OT and NT....still, sometimes playing "let's pretend" can help you understand what it looks like from another's shoes.
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Old 06-04-2007, 08:57 PM   #59
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Ok...this is ridiculous. Jesus is a person who is in the New Testament. Many times within the NT, Jesus is said to speak of judgment. I don't know what picture of Jesus that you have, but if you have one that just says that everyone can believe what they want to and that all religions are equal...then it isn't one based upon the four gospels.
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Old 06-04-2007, 09:08 PM   #60
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Homosexual behavior = SIN


and the

wages of SIN is ??????
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