martha
Blue Crack Supplier
popsadie said:.then it isn't one based upon the four gospels.
You finally get it!!
popsadie said:.then it isn't one based upon the four gospels.
coemgen said:
That doesn't mean I can't lovingly be concerned for them and try to get them out of it.
Ormus said:"Whatever is natural is moral, as all that is natural is of God."
coemgen said:That doesn't make sense though. I know Christians who struggle with certain sins. Porn would be one. That doesn't mean I can't lovingly be concerned for them and try to get them out of it. Again, consider the perspective where many Biblically minded Christians are coming from. If they're wrong, and homosexuality is natural, then at best they're ignorant. They're not hateful though.
Irvine511 said:but don't you see, Ormus?
it's not natural for boys to be gay. it happens when we have weak fathers and overbearing mothers. the naturally heteroseuxal child bonds unnaturally to his mother and fails to spend enough time hunting and fishing and playing catch with his father.
but not to worry! we can correct this psychological affliction and return to our natural states through reparative therapy.
A_Wanderer said:If homosexuality was a choice would it be a sin?
martha said:
How?
This makes more sense.phillyfan26 said:I don't know if "alter" was necessarily the right word. Any oppression of homosexuality should be looked upon as with race and sexism, in law and in conduct. While government and religion don't mix, they won't legally be allowed to segregate, regardless of religious beliefs. Racism and sexism haven't survived as church practices, so I hope that religion will reform itself.
phillyfan26 said:I really have no plan. I just don't understand how people can use religion to segregate, as opposed to unite.
the iron horse said:Certain religions/beliefs should be forced to alter itself?
Do you really believe that?
What force? Gentle persuasion or something else?
Will I be fined, thrown in jail or executed if I fail to alter my religious beliefs?
Your thoughts here phillyfan26 are scary. I only read this thread once, but it seems that about half of the posts are in favor of some retrictions on religious belief and expression.
The ancient Romans didn't care about what gods or how many gods you worshiped. What got the early Christians in trouble and many killed was their belief that Jesus was the only way. They refused to bow to the emperor as god.
popsadie2 said:If Christians were after killing and harassing homosexuals, I could see your point, but they simply follow a religious text that says that homosexuality is perverse and a sexual sin. There is a difference between belief and discrimination.
popsadie said:Ormus....In the four gospels, Jesus quotes much of the OT. I don't see how one can throw out the OT if they claim to be a follower of Jesus. Now, if you are a catholic and believe that dogma is as essential as the scriptures, I might understand where you are coming from.
Ormus said:
"Whatever is natural is moral, as all that is natural is of God."
popsadie said:but I cannot deny that scripture does say a few things about it.
My point is that as a behaviour it is a matter of consensual acts between two or more individuals, it is a matter of liberty and it wouldn't matter if it was hard wired or elective it isn't wrong.phillyfan26 said:
It is not a choice, so I don't see your point.
popsadie said:Honestly, I don't see myself ever going out and 'ministering' to homosexuals. This is an area of the scriptures that I struggle with, but I cannot deny that scripture does say a few things about it.
popsadie said:I have had several friends who practice homosexuality and a few of them believed in Christ.
martha said:
Yeah, so maybe He didn't.
What spiritual gymnastics Christians are capable of when they want to feel good about hating and discriminating in the name of Jesus.
How convenient that the OT allows you to hate (just like God!) and essentially disregard Jesus when you get uncomfortable with someone's different sexuality.
As a follow-up, tell me this, where does God allow you, personally, to do what He does? Oh let's say, for example, hate?
Irvine511 said:
tell me, how do you "practice" heterosexuality?
Irvine511 said:
but you can't "get" someone "out" of being gay.
and the more you lovingly attempt to do so, the more harm you are inflicting and self-hate you are inducing in and upon that gay person.
the whole Exodus movement is hate dressed up with love; it makes whatever Christian feel better about their hate -- because it's really love! -- and damages the gay person.
any other perspective is self-serving bullshit.
and i think you know that.
popsadie said:I have had several friends who practice homosexuality
coemgen said:
I understand that, Irvine. You're completley missing my point. I'm explaining where many Christians come from. Yes, they may be wrong, but that's there perspective. Until you see where they're coming from and they see where you're coming from, nobody's going to get anywhere. It's that simple.
Ormus said:
It is your constitutional right to believe in pseudoscience, just as it is my right to state that your beliefs on homosexuality are 35 years out of date. Scientific observations of homosexuality have determined that it is a part of nature, and observations of same-sex behavior within the animal kingdom have merely cemented this claim.
I certainly do understand where "Biblically minded Christians" are coming from, but even at that, I disagree with your usage of that description, as I would categorize these arguments as argumentum ad populum, rather than based on any genuine understanding of the Bible.
coemgen said:
I understand that, Irvine. You're completley missing my point. I'm explaining where many Christians come from. Yes, they may be wrong, but that's there perspective. Until you see where they're coming from and they see where you're coming from, nobody's going to get anywhere. It's that simple.
Irvine511 said:
i understand where they are coming from, but people are being psychologically damaged from all this "love." it's abuse, and it must stop.
anitram said:
But why do we have to bend over backwards for Christians and nobody else? The perspective of a Muslim man in Saudi Arabia might be to beat his wife and kill his sister if she strays from family values. The perspective of a white racist down south might be that blacks have no place in polite society. We don't try to "see where they're coming from" because guess what - they're wrong, offensive and that's that. Period.