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Old 06-04-2007, 05:06 PM   #31
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Originally posted by phillyfan26
The only parts of religion that should be banned are those that have to do with specific segregation, like those religions that look at homosexuality (which is not a choice) as a sin. Homosexuality should not be looked upon as sinful, religion or not, when there is proof that they cannot control it.

In those cases, religion should be forced to alter itself.

Certain religions/beliefs should be forced to alter itself?

Do you really believe that?

What force? Gentle persuasion or something else?

Will I be fined, thrown in jail or executed if I fail to alter my religious beliefs?

Your thoughts here phillyfan26 are scary. I only read this thread once, but it seems that about half of the posts are in favor of some retrictions on religious belief and expression.

The ancient Romans didn't care about what gods or how many gods you worshiped. What got the early Christians in trouble and many killed was their belief that Jesus was the only way. They refused to bow to the emperor as god.



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Old 06-04-2007, 05:08 PM   #32
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"The only parts of religion that should be banned are those that have to do with specific segregation, like those religions that look at homosexuality (which is not a choice) as a sin. Homosexuality should not be looked upon as sinful, religion or not, when there is proof that they cannot control it.

In those cases, religion should be forced to alter itself. "


If Christians were after killing and harassing homosexuals, I could see your point, but they simply follow a religious text that says that homosexuality is perverse and a sexual sin. There is a difference between belief and discrimination.
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Old 06-04-2007, 05:20 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by popsadie2
If Christians were after killing and harassing homosexuals, I could see your point, but they simply follow a religious text that says that homosexuality is perverse and a sexual sin. There is a difference between belief and discrimination.


christians do harass and kill homosexuals. all the time. ever heard of gay bashing? the entire bogus industry of reparation therapy is a cloak for the abuse of homosexuals. the shame that many Christian communities imbue into the lives and minds of gay youth that tragically result in disproportionate numbers of suicides amongst gay teens is murderous abuse. the refusal to grant homosexuals equal rights to heterosexuals whether in marriage or in something as basic as job discrimination is a very clear form of discrimination.

and many would debate, quite forcefully, your contention that the texts call a modern understanding of homosexuality perverse and a sexual sin.
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Old 06-04-2007, 05:21 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse



Certain religions/beliefs should be forced to alter itself?

Do you really believe that?

What force? Gentle persuasion or something else?

Will I be fined, thrown in jail or executed if I fail to alter my religious beliefs?


do you still think the sun revolves around the earth?
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Old 06-04-2007, 05:35 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




christians do harass and kill homosexuals. all the time. ever heard of gay bashing? the entire bogus industry of reparation therapy is a cloak for the abuse of homosexuals. the shame that many Christian communities imbue into the lives and minds of gay youth that tragically result in disproportionate numbers of suicides amongst gay teens is murderous abuse. the refusal to grant homosexuals equal rights to heterosexuals whether in marriage or in something as basic as job discrimination is a very clear form of discrimination.
I think the point being made is that non of this is Biblical Christianity.
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Old 06-04-2007, 05:47 PM   #36
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Originally posted by coemgen


I think the point being made is that non of this is Biblical Christianity.


i agree that it isn't Biblical Christianity -- though some wouldn't agree -- but i thought the post was trying to make the point that Christians simply thought that homosexuality was sinful and gross, but that at least they weren't killing homosexuals, so it was totally okay.
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Old 06-04-2007, 05:52 PM   #37
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lie a little

lie a lot

hate the sin (homosexuality)

is supporting actions against gays

to what ever extend they get carried
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Old 06-04-2007, 06:00 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
lie a little

lie a lot

hate the sin (homosexuality)

is supporting actions against gays

to what ever extend they get carried
We've gone over this before though. Christians who believe homosexuality is a sin don't see it as something natural, therefore, they're not against it maliciously or in an attempt to discriminate, they're simply looking out for the best interest of that person as they would with any of us because we all sin. So, therefore, "hating the sin, loving the sinner" is perfectly fine.

Yes, there are some who claim to be Christians who may be treating homosexuals wrong, but that's not Biblical Christianity.
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Old 06-04-2007, 06:08 PM   #39
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What a terrific piece of doublethink.
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Old 06-04-2007, 06:09 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
What a terrific piece of doublethink.
How so?
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Old 06-04-2007, 06:11 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
So, therefore, "hating the sin, loving the sinner" is perfectly fine.
Horseshit. Quote me the verse where Jesus says it's ok to hate anything.

Go ahead and look. I'll wait.
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Old 06-04-2007, 06:15 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


We've gone over this before though. Christians who believe homosexuality is a sin don't see it as something natural, therefore, they're not against it maliciously or in an attempt to discriminate, they're simply looking out for the best interest of that person as they would with any of us because we all sin. So, therefore, "hating the sin, loving the sinner" is perfectly fine.

Yes, there are some who claim to be Christians who may be treating homosexuals wrong, but that's not Biblical Christianity.
And there were those who believe mix race marriage is a sin. And quote bible verses to support their belief.

And they will tell you they are not malicious.

And I do not make allowance for them either.


There is a lot more in the Bible about divorce than there is about man lying with man.


You say not "an attempt to discriminate"
can you honestly say it does not lead to descrimination?


I don't think it is natural for me to marry someone 3 times my body weight or 3 times difference in age from me.

But if I did this you would not call it a sin.

"simply looking out for the best interest of that person" based on that, I might kidnap these people and have them deprogramed (just kidding)



"hating the sin, loving the sinner" is perfectly fine

hating is never fine

hate is poison
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Old 06-04-2007, 06:15 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


How so?
Because you are maintaining that they can simultaneously be good people worthy of love while at the same time knowingly commiting a sin that has to be corrected - getting them to stop sinning is not loving them, it is harming them.
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Old 06-04-2007, 06:26 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha


Horseshit. Quote me the verse where Jesus says it's ok to hate anything.

Go ahead and look. I'll wait.
Maybe Christ didn't say the word hate, but the OT tells us God hates sin.
Deuteronomy 12:31 says "You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods."
Deuteronomy 16:22 says "and do not erect a sacred stone, for these the Lord your God hates."

Malachi 2:16 says "I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.
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Old 06-04-2007, 06:31 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Because you are maintaining that they can simultaneously be good people worthy of love while at the same time knowingly commiting a sin that has to be corrected - getting them to stop sinning is not loving them, it is harming them.
That doesn't make sense though. I know Christians who struggle with certain sins. Porn would be one. That doesn't mean I can't lovingly be concerned for them and try to get them out of it. Again, consider the perspective where many Biblically minded Christians are coming from. If they're wrong, and homosexuality is natural, then at best they're ignorant. They're not hateful though.
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