"My god is true, your god is false" - Page 25 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-09-2007, 11:19 AM   #361
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,494
Local Time: 01:35 AM
Prayer doesn't work.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 06-09-2007, 12:16 PM   #362
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by popsadie
You know...knowledge isn't always objective. I can''t Prove God's existence in a scientific way, but it is real to me. I witnessed a healing of a woman(who is also my friend) with severe emphysema who just eight days earlier was blue on the lips and needed to carry around oxygen. Two days after being prayed for by prisoners she was ministering to on Christmas Day(she is the wife of my pastor), she was leading worship again without any breathing tubes at my church. I go to a pretty small church and know the woman well. I don't know why she was healed and others have not been, but in my mind...I know it was the God we prayed to that healed her.
I do not disagree with that, I do think God performs things like this.

What I don't understand is how people can take everything in the Bible literally without checking the context, and ignoring inconsistencies that have been proven wrong.
__________________

__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 06-09-2007, 10:34 PM   #363
War Child
 
butter7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 785
Local Time: 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by popsadie
You know...knowledge isn't always objective. I can''t Prove God's existence in a scientific way, but it is real to me. I witnessed a healing of a woman(who is also my friend) with severe emphysema who just eight days earlier was blue on the lips and needed to carry around oxygen. Two days after being prayed for by prisoners she was ministering to on Christmas Day(she is the wife of my pastor), she was leading worship again without any breathing tubes at my church. I go to a pretty small church and know the woman well. I don't know why she was healed and others have not been, but in my mind...I know it was the God we prayed to that healed her.
You know, if God knows everything then the sickness of that woman was one of his decision, too. So, if she's a a faithful follower of God, she should obey God's decision, and wait for her day to come, not taking any oxygen supply at all. Certainly your guys shouldn't pray for her, because what your guys did just challenge the correctness of God's decision.

And the improvement of her health, could mean that God has realised he's decision to make that woman sick is incorrect, and therefore he corrected his mistake. Since he's not always 100% correct, and he did change his mind that often, I don't think people should follow him once they realise this.
__________________
butter7 is offline  
Old 06-09-2007, 10:42 PM   #364
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by butter7


You know, if God knows everything then the sickness of that woman was one of his decision, too. So, if she's a a faithful follower of God, she should obey God's decision, and wait for her day to come, not taking any oxygen supply at all. Certainly your guys shouldn't pray for her, because what your guys did just challenge the correctness of God's decision.

And the improvement of her health, could mean that God has realised he's decision to make that woman sick is incorrect, and therefore he corrected his mistake. Since he's not always 100% correct, and he did change his mind that often, I don't think people should follow him once they realise this.
I hope that's sarcasm.
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 06-09-2007, 10:52 PM   #365
War Child
 
butter7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 785
Local Time: 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26


I hope that's sarcasm.
No, it's not. I do hope people could share their thought about this logic though.
__________________
butter7 is offline  
Old 06-09-2007, 10:52 PM   #366
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by butter7


No, it's not. I do hope someone could tell me their thought about this logic though.
You're saying that not treating injured or sick human beings is logical?
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 06-09-2007, 10:57 PM   #367
War Child
 
butter7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 785
Local Time: 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26


You're saying that not treating injured or sick human beings is logical?
I'm saying IF God already decided one's destiny or fate, then he/she didn't need to treat sickness. Because it either his/her destiny to got sick/to die, or his/her destiny to go through the trouble. I couldn't see the necessity of any medical treatment here.
__________________
butter7 is offline  
Old 06-09-2007, 10:59 PM   #368
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,685
Local Time: 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by butter7


You know, if God knows everything then the sickness of that woman was one of his decision, too. So, if she's a a faithful follower of God, she should obey God's decision, and wait for her day to come, not taking any oxygen supply at all. Certainly your guys shouldn't pray for her, because what your guys did just challenge the correctness of God's decision.

And the improvement of her health, could mean that God has realised he's decision to make that woman sick is incorrect, and therefore he corrected his mistake. Since he's not always 100% correct, and he did change his mind that often, I don't think people should follow him once they realise this.
I don't know where I stand on "miracles" of this kind.

But I can give you a little insight on the thinking of most people who do.

Most don't believe that God has an active role in playing a puppetmaster. So the illness was not "his decision" it was allowing free will of the person, elements, the human condition.

But some believe that prayer might entice God to intervene and give someone a second chance or a longer stay.

Like I said, I don't really think that's God's role, but for those who do, this is how most see it.

It's not a matter of him correcting a decision...
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 06-09-2007, 11:00 PM   #369
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by butter7


I'm saying IF God already decided one's destiny or fate, then he/she didn't need to treat sickness. Because it either his/her destiny to got sick/to die, or his/her destiny to go through the trouble. I couldn't see the necessity of any medical treatment here.
This is under the umbrella of people who believe God controls everything and that there is no free will, which I do not believe in. But I'll see if I can follow.

Wouldn't it be safe to assume that with the world around us that God has created, he assumed that there could be treatment available for said person? I think it ridiculous to suggest that God is against medical treatment.
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 06-09-2007, 11:00 PM   #370
War Child
 
butter7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 785
Local Time: 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by butter7


I'm saying IF God already decided one's destiny or fate, then he/she didn't need to treat sickness. Because it either his/her destiny to got sick/to die, or his/her destiny to go through the trouble. I couldn't see the necessity of any medical treatment here.
However, if we do need medical treatment, it only means that God's decision on one's destiny doesn't work very well. If he couldn't eve got this thing right, how could he got other things right? If he is not reliable, why should people follow him?
__________________
butter7 is offline  
Old 06-09-2007, 11:08 PM   #371
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by butter7


However, if we do need medical treatment, it only means that God's decision on one's destiny doesn't work very well. If he couldn't eve got this thing right, how could he got other things right? If he is not reliable, why should people follow him?
Again, this is assuming He controls everything. That's the reason why most people don't assume that.

You're essentially saying now that you shouldn't do anything unless God tells you to or does it for you.
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 06-09-2007, 11:10 PM   #372
War Child
 
butter7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 785
Local Time: 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26


This is under the umbrella of people who believe God controls everything and that there is no free will, which I do not believe in. But I'll see if I can follow.

Wouldn't it be safe to assume that with the world around us that God has created, he assumed that there could be treatment available for said person? I think it ridiculous to suggest that God is against medical treatment.
You know, if this logic works, then we got the result as the praying to God is useless. I don't think people would agree on this, either.

I think BonoVoxSupastar's explaination is more reasonable.

From 100 people you could see 100 different version of God, and all of them claim to be true. That's what make Christianity so interesting to research on.
__________________
butter7 is offline  
Old 06-09-2007, 11:28 PM   #373
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,685
Local Time: 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by butter7


You know, if this logic works, then we got the result as the praying to God is useless. I don't think people would agree on this, either.
I do agree with this to a certain point.

I believe prayer is often misused. I think prayer is powerful but only in the realm of giving individuals a certain peace withing themselves.
__________________

__________________
BVS is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com