"My god is true, your god is false" - Page 24 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-08-2007, 12:13 PM   #346
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,332
Local Time: 03:39 AM
coemgen, were you traumatized by a Mormon guy on a bike once or something?
__________________

__________________
martha is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 12:23 PM   #347
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
hardyharhar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Out Californy-way
Posts: 8,403
Local Time: 04:39 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by martha


This may be my new favorite word.
Mormonical
__________________

__________________
hardyharhar is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 12:26 PM   #348
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
coemgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 06:39 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

Coemgen: you know as well as i do that everything Christ "said" is secondhand information, written decades and decades after it was said. if not longer.
It may have been decades after, but that pales in comparison to other "reliable biographies" of the time or even later. Plus, it was written within the generation of those who lived with Christ -- not in the next generation like many other historical figures. If somebody got something wrong, it would've been debated and changed. It also was copied numerous times to spread the Gospel, and this preserved the original text. Many other texts of this era and even later had far, far less first copies circulating.

The Gospels stand out in many regards when it comes to the effort put into them to get them out quickly and to as many people as possible. Yeah they weren't written for decades, but they were written before the next generation of people needed them.

Quote:

as for best student in class -- what i'm saying is that for the fundamentalist, there is only one moment where one has clarity and consciousness, and that is at the point where one chooses to believe. and then, after that, the mind, heart, and soul are put in the service of learning the letter of the thing, ignoring the spirit, and viewing all that happens in life thorugh this prism.
There may be people out there like this, but I don't think it's right. You have to approach the Bible with humility. I may discuss things with certainty as far as my understanding of the Bible, but I'm always open to other possible interpretations or additional context to better arrive at the truth of the text.

Quote:

you believe in a loving God who controls all things on earth? and then, one day, a tsunami comes along and kills 250,000+ people, many of them children. what do you do? do you re-evaluate? do you struggle? do you despair?

no! for it is all God's will! you can't possibly understand why, so rejoice! praise him! for he knows better than you why!

there is a dearly departed poster who, in my view, was clearly the best student in class when it came to things like this. his intellect was tremendous, and his knowledge of scripture impressive.

but i never got a sense of consciousness or genuine self-awareness or struggle or even the glimmer of a moment where what he saw conflicted in some way with what he read in the Bible.

got a question about the Bible? look to the Bible for the answer.
Well, yes, the Bible is the only text Christians have in understanding God, so of course we go to it for answers. But you're right, you can't just go to it for answers about itself. It's good to have a historical and cultural understanding about the people who wrote it and the people they wrote to and about. A classic example is the part where it says "it's easier for you to fit a camel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven." I always thought, "Well, then it's impossible for a rich man to get to heaven, but that doesn't make sense." I later found out there was a gate in Jerusalem or somewhere called "the eye of a needle" that was narrow and extremely difficult to get a camel through -- but it was possible. Now, I heard this from a person whom I have great respect for, but I haven't verified it as fact.

Stuff like a tsunami is very hard to deal with. It doesn't make sense. But yes, I believe God is a loving God and he is in control. At the same time, I believe there's another force out there that goes against him and I know there's free will. Where these three intersect can be blurry at times. I'm not going to get all Pat Robertson on you and pretend I know what's going on. But just because I don't know what's going on doesn't mean there's not a greater being out there who does.
__________________
coemgen is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 12:35 PM   #349
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,641
Local Time: 05:39 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
I appreciate the style, however the content I take literally.

dbs
You can't, that's my point. Those words say something completely different to me.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 06-08-2007, 12:49 PM   #350
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
coemgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 06:39 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by martha
coemgen, were you traumatized by a Mormon guy on a bike once or something?

__________________
coemgen is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 12:51 PM   #351
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 06:39 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen

It may have been decades after, but that pales in comparison to other "reliable biographies" of the time or even later. Plus, it was written within the generation of those who lived with Christ -- not in the next generation like many other historical figures. If somebody got something wrong, it would've been debated and changed. It also was copied numerous times to spread the Gospel, and this preserved the original text. Many other texts of this era and even later had far, far less first copies circulating.


and none of this even approaches the criteria required for a literal, word-for-word understanding.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 12:52 PM   #352
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
hardyharhar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Out Californy-way
Posts: 8,403
Local Time: 04:39 AM
Jesus was a rabble rouser hoping to bring down the corrupt leaders of his time, who were no different than the phony bible thumpers we have leading us now. Just the sort of radical that christians today would be bashing for his blasphemous views.

I hope there is a god and heaven, but I'm pretty sure there isn't.

But I will definitely believe when I see him on video.
__________________
hardyharhar is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 01:02 PM   #353
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 04:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


You can't,
Yes I can.

__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 01:05 PM   #354
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,641
Local Time: 05:39 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


Yes I can.

Sure, if you aren't a thinking man...
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 06-08-2007, 01:14 PM   #355
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 04:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


Mormonical = the opposite of what the Bible says.

The Bible says we can return to God depending on our response to God's grace, not what we do with our lives.

Interesting.


Quote:
Mormonical = the opposite of what the Bible says.
Not true, and you know it, and I think it scares you Mormons might have something more than your understanding.


Quote:
The Bible says we can return to God depending on our response to God's grace, not what we do with our lives.
Mormons teach as the Bible teaches a combination of both are needed, Grace and Works.

We don't believe in cheap Grace, while a lot "mainline Christianity" promotes this concept, attempting to throw out the teachings of James.:

James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
James 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
James 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
James 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
James 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
James 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.





Quote:
coemgen, were you traumatized by a Mormon guy on a bike once or something?
Martha,

I think comeg is infuriated with the LDS Church for what ever reason.
However, I appreciate from what paradigm he deals from and love him unconditionally, but I do not love what he he has to say about my Church and other churches that don't align with his beliefs.

dbs
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 01:37 PM   #356
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
hardyharhar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Out Californy-way
Posts: 8,403
Local Time: 04:39 AM
I think South Park summed all this up pretty well. Mormon beliefs are pretty nutty, but hey, they're happy. So, as the little Mormon kid says to Stan, "Suck my balls". And walks away.
__________________
hardyharhar is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 01:50 PM   #357
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 04:39 AM
hardy
har
har
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 02:42 PM   #358
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 06:39 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
And yes, it's God's word, but it's written by humans. You're right. It's God's word because it's inspired by God, not because he grabbed a pen and started writing.
Laughable statement. The whole point of saying it's written by humans is that it thus is not 100% reliable. How do you know political bias isn't in there? In fact, it's almost a guarantee there is. Which is why it's not all black-and-white. Which is why it's not all to be trusted.
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 06-09-2007, 03:37 AM   #359
Acrobat
 
popsadie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Norman, Oklahoma,USA
Posts: 457
Local Time: 11:39 AM
You know...knowledge isn't always objective. I can''t Prove God's existence in a scientific way, but it is real to me. I witnessed a healing of a woman(who is also my friend) with severe emphysema who just eight days earlier was blue on the lips and needed to carry around oxygen. Two days after being prayed for by prisoners she was ministering to on Christmas Day(she is the wife of my pastor), she was leading worship again without any breathing tubes at my church. I go to a pretty small church and know the woman well. I don't know why she was healed and others have not been, but in my mind...I know it was the God we prayed to that healed her.
__________________
popsadie is offline  
Old 06-09-2007, 03:47 AM   #360
The Fly
 
Smallville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The South
Posts: 160
Local Time: 05:39 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by popsadie
You know...knowledge isn't always objective. I can''t Prove God's existence in a scientific way, but it is real to me. I witnessed a healing of a woman(who is also my friend) with severe emphysema who just eight days earlier was blue on the lips and needed to carry around oxygen. Two days after being prayed for by prisoners she was ministering to on Christmas Day(she is the wife of my pastor), she was leading worship again without any breathing tubes at my church. I go to a pretty small church and know the woman well. I don't know why she was healed and others have not been, but in my mind...I know it was the God we prayed to that healed her.
That's an awesome witness, thank you.
__________________

__________________
Smallville is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com