"My god is true, your god is false" - Page 19 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-06-2007, 11:45 PM   #271
Acrobat
 
popsadie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Norman, Oklahoma,USA
Posts: 457
Local Time: 01:07 AM
But, if you believe that the scriptures are God inspired...and that Christians are holy spirit inspired, then it can be God answering for you.
__________________

__________________
popsadie is offline  
Old 06-06-2007, 11:49 PM   #272
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by popsadie
But, if you believe that the scriptures are God inspired...and that Christians are holy spirit inspired, then it can be God answering for you.


the key is inspired.

literalism -- contested, subjective words like "abomination" or whatever -- has no place in inspired understanding.

the path widens.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 06-06-2007, 11:53 PM   #273
Acrobat
 
popsadie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Norman, Oklahoma,USA
Posts: 457
Local Time: 01:07 AM
There are contestable things in our translated scripture. I agree with this. However, there are also things in scripture...like salvation basics...that are backed up numerous times in different letters and gospels. These things, I feel, are backed up enough to make their validity supportable. It is these things, not the contestable things that I am talking about.
__________________
popsadie is offline  
Old 06-06-2007, 11:57 PM   #274
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by popsadie
There are contestable things in our translated scripture. I agree with this. However, there are also things in scripture...like salvation basics...that are backed up numerous times in different letters and gospels. These things, I feel, are backed up enough to make their validity supportable. It is these things, not the contestable things that I am talking about.


i think we can say that the Christian idea of Jesus being god/man is hard to contest.

but things like homosexuality is "wrong." "submitting" to a husband. Jesus is the only way. women should never instruct men.

these specifics, which reveal the cultural climate of the time and place in which such things were written, are highly contestable indeed.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 06-07-2007, 12:05 AM   #275
War Child
 
Ormus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Frontios
Posts: 758
Local Time: 09:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
the key is inspired.

literalism -- contested, subjective words like "abomination" or whatever -- has no place in inspired understanding.

the path widens.
Just to chime in here for a moment, but I'm not sure how this argument here is going to end in a satisfactory manner, because there is a rather considerable difference between a debate of Biblical mistranslation and/or misunderstandings versus a debate over errancy versus inerrancy.

But, in many ways, this debate has much less urgency than the one I engaged in here. While the Bible has been and is often continued to be used as a tool to deny gay rights, religious freedom is pretty much standard in Christian countries (and is also standard in the sole Jewish country).

While I'm sure the Oxford Annotated Bible I'm awaiting could possibly clarify this issue (it's back-ordered 4-6 weeks), I imagine that it wouldn't matter regardless. This issue, in the end, boils down completely to the issue of faith.

In the meantime, perhaps you can take comfort in the fact that most Christians before the Protestant Reformation didn't take the Bible literally:

"Those who read the Scripture literally, do without understanding, because the light is clouded by their own pride and selfish love." - St. Catherine of Siena, A.D. 1347-1380 ("Her great learning earned her the title doctor of the church and she used her wisdom to challenge the authorities on matters she was passionate about. Her ability to engage important issues with popes was a highly unusual and controversial role for women of her time.")
__________________
Ormus is offline  
Old 06-07-2007, 12:06 AM   #276
Acrobat
 
popsadie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Norman, Oklahoma,USA
Posts: 457
Local Time: 01:07 AM
But...if God were a holy God and 'someone' or 'something' was needed to bridge the gap, and according to Christianity, that someone was Jesus...how can belief that Jesus is the way of salvation be 'contestable'? How can the central belief of Christianity be contestable?
__________________
popsadie is offline  
Old 06-07-2007, 12:08 AM   #277
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 08:07 PM
it's the insistence upon inerrancy in the face of widley understood -- in a scholarly sense -- misunderstanding that drives my insistence on the spirit of the laws being not just what matters, but is the only thing that could make any sense to matter.

and what's so pleasant about popsadie and coemgen is that they come from a different viewpoint, but are willing to engage and discuss. a fundamentalist viewpoint might be offered, but neither strikes me as a fundamentalist in the pure sense of the word. so this doesn't seem to be an urgent discussion, no, but an interesting one nonetheless.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 06-07-2007, 12:11 AM   #278
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by popsadie
But...if God were a holy God and 'someone' or 'something' was needed to bridge the gap, and according to Christianity, that someone was Jesus...how can belief that Jesus is the way of salvation be 'contestable'? How can the central belief of Christianity be contestable?


Jesus being "a" way vs. Jesus being "the only" way.

just what is an 11 year old in calcutta to do?

what is someone who's simply been raised under a different tradition --a tradition that's probably, structurally, not that much different than your own -- to do?

it's reasonable to assume that if you were born in Saudi Arabia, you'd be every bit the Muslim as you are the Christian. it's reaosnable to assume that if you were born in India, you'd be every bit the Hindu as you are the Christian.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 06-07-2007, 12:12 AM   #279
War Child
 
butter7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 785
Local Time: 12:07 PM
Did you notice that if you are not such a serious believer, your life would be a lot brighter, have less worries and less restrictions?

To be free, is the only reason I choose stay away from any of the religion.
__________________
butter7 is offline  
Old 06-07-2007, 12:18 AM   #280
Acrobat
 
popsadie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Norman, Oklahoma,USA
Posts: 457
Local Time: 01:07 AM
Irvine, this is a question that I admittedly have no answer for. Part of me believes that maybe one who hasn't heard would get the chance after death, but to be honest, I simply do not know. I do know that I am called to share and hopefully through my actions act out my faith. I share your concern regarding this.
__________________
popsadie is offline  
Old 06-07-2007, 12:22 AM   #281
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by butter7
Did you notice that if you are not such a serious believer, your life would be a lot brighter, have less worries and less restrictions?

To be free, is the only reason I choose stay away from any of the religion.
Im not so sure about that, certainty in a lie can be more comforting than uncertainty.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 06-07-2007, 12:24 AM   #282
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 05:07 PM
what if someone was

told about Jesus


and didn't buy it


are they done for?
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 06-07-2007, 12:28 AM   #283
Acrobat
 
popsadie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Norman, Oklahoma,USA
Posts: 457
Local Time: 01:07 AM
I honestly think it depends on what they were told. I do think that, if one believes in Christianity, people who are given the whole picture about Christ and choose to reject Christ shouldn't expect to be saved. Jesus isn't going to force anyone to want him. My mind is this...is one rejects Christ, why would they want to be where he was anyway?
__________________
popsadie is offline  
Old 06-07-2007, 12:35 AM   #284
War Child
 
butter7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 785
Local Time: 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by popsadie
I honestly think it depends on what they were told. I do think that, if one believes in Christianity, people who are given the whole picture about Christ and choose to reject Christ shouldn't expect to be saved. Jesus isn't going to force anyone to want him. My mind is this...is one rejects Christ, why would they want to be where he was anyway?
Okay...

that's the logic:

One points a gun at your head, and say: if you don't follow me, I'll shoot you.

You call that LOVE? Come on....
__________________
butter7 is offline  
Old 06-07-2007, 12:36 AM   #285
Acrobat
 
popsadie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Norman, Oklahoma,USA
Posts: 457
Local Time: 01:07 AM
No...Christianity says that you are already dead. Jesus is the one that brings you alive again. There is a difference.
__________________

__________________
popsadie is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com