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Old 05-16-2005, 05:54 PM   #16
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Let's keep our labels simple so we don't get confused with our finger pointing.

whenever i keep a label simple, people like you jump down my throat for painting with too broad a brush. fair enough.

i'm not pointing fingers. i'm demanding accountability from what is, perhaps, the centerpiece of self-described "Christian" groups like Concerned Women for America, Focus on the Family, and The Catholic Church.

i liked Angela's post.

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Old 05-16-2005, 07:03 PM   #17
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Wait for it...I'm about to agree with crusader again (this might be the 3rd time? lol).

Without the basis of religion, being anti gay marriage is solely bigotry. I dont wish to start the merits of bigotry, or lack of, in religion, but without it, there is no basis except the fundamental and otherwise appalling denial of equal rights.
I personally am pro-gay marriage, but I do know non-religious people who are against it who use the argument that it's unnatural in a scientific sense or that the term "marriage" relates to only a man/woman couple. Do I agree with these arguments? Nope, I can find many a whole in them. But are they bigotry? I honestly don't know.

(kicking myself because I thought I never would get into FYM again, but oh well)

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Old 05-16-2005, 08:06 PM   #18
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Hmm. I do try not to throw the term bigot around too lightly, but...The way I see it is, you take any issue like sexuality, race, age, gender whatever, and have any number of reasons for feeling that certain people within these groups should be held back from whatever it is you are discussing, but at the end of the day you are withholding their right to participate in something based on their one difference to you or whomever. Hows that for a convoluted sentence lol. It is discrimination in the very least, and bigotry when the feeling is there is no grounds for equal participation. No one person is technically equal to the next, we are all (all 6 odd billion of us) different, but we have to treat everyone the same. We need a flat level playing field. We need to say marriage is for all. We need to say employment and pay opportunities equal for all. I feel that to not do so is, like I said, in the least discriminatory. To believe that it is ok to discriminate and hold someone back based on one element of their selves I do think is bigotted. If we strip this down, that is essentially what it is. We are mainly discussing basic rights like marriage. Yet we believe we hold the power and moral authority to withdraw this right from someone on a difference. There is no morality there. It says "You are not as worthy, you will be held back". Some might argue that there is no hatred involved. But it is at the least placid non-acceptance. And in my book, placid non-acceptance is just not ok.

I'm going round in circles lol.
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Old 05-16-2005, 08:40 PM   #19
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I don't think heteros have any business telling gay people they can't be married. It's none of their goddamn business at all.

I'm sure black people would be mad if their rights had been up to a vote. No, it took the North blackmailing the South during Reconstruction to approve the anti-slavery amendments and then it took "activist judges" to enforce the amendments. If it were up to the "majority," black people would probably still be slaves.

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Old 05-16-2005, 10:01 PM   #20
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Let's keep our labels simple so we don't get confused with our finger pointing.
sarcasm or plain humor .

well written anyway
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Old 05-16-2005, 10:30 PM   #21
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Originally posted by melon
I don't think heteros have any business telling gay people they can't be married. It's none of their goddamn business at all.


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