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Old 06-04-2005, 08:10 PM   #31
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I don't understand how that work of "art" was a commentary on the suffering of Christ.
Did you read all of my post, as I specified why I thought that it was?

I would have interpreted it as being a commentary on the physicality of the human nature of the suffering of Christ.
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Old 06-04-2005, 08:20 PM   #32
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Did you read all of my post, as I specified why I thought that it was?

I would have interpreted it as being a commentary on the physicality of the human nature of the suffering of Christ.
Waitwait. So if I took a shit on my Joshua Tree CD and said that it represented my pride that U2, being mere humans, could make such a heavenly piece of work, would you believe me?
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Old 06-04-2005, 08:25 PM   #33
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Waitwait. So if I took a shit on my Joshua Tree CD and said that it represented my pride that U2, being mere humans, could make such a heavenly piece of work, would you believe me?
No.

In Christian, and particularly Catholic iconography, the sufferings of Christ are sometimes "watered down" or under-stated. We have these beautiful artworks from, for example, the Renaissance period which, though beautiful, do not necessarily show reality.
They do not necessarily show the "blood and guts", as it were.

I would see the art-work "Piss-Christ" as being from a similar stream as Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ".

Both uncompromisingly make statements about the reality of Christ's suffering.

Having said, that I understand why people would have had a problem with TAXPAYERS' money being used to finance a controversial art-work..
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Old 06-04-2005, 08:30 PM   #34
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wrong post ...
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Old 06-04-2005, 08:32 PM   #35
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No.

In Christian, and particularly Catholic iconography, the sufferings of Christ are sometimes "watered down" or under-stated. We have these beautiful artworks from, for example, the Renaissance period which, though beautiful, do not necessarily show reality.

I would see the art-work "Piss-Christ" as being from a similar stream as Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ".

Both uncompromisingly make statements about the reality of Christ's suffering.
But why use piss? Wouldn't something like blood make that statement a tad more clear? When Christ was beaten and hung on the cross with a crown of thorns on his head, I don't think it was piss that was streaming down his face.
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Old 06-04-2005, 08:33 PM   #36
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But why use piss? Wouldn't something like blood make that statement a tad more clear? When Christ was beaten and hung on the cross with a crown of thorns on his head, I don't think it was piss that was streaming down his face.
Yes, but it is not for me to dictate to the artist which is more fitting to use.
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Old 06-04-2005, 08:34 PM   #37
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wrong post ...
How do you mean?
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Old 06-04-2005, 08:35 PM   #38
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(2) As an atheist, you appear to be inconsistent in that you will happily slag off Islam at every opportunity, but I have yet to read a post of yours criticising the excesses of the Christian right or the misdeeds of terrorists wearing the Christian banner (in the latter case, as I said previously, I can list numerous examples, not least in my own country). I think there is a huge level of ignorance/naivetie on here and possibly in the Western world in general regarding this particular issue of terrorists wearing the Christian banner.
Christian terrorists really rank very low on the scale of terrorists. Their goals are generally not religious in nature, can you name me a purely religious Christian Terrorist organisation that has the means and the support to bring about their own vision of the apocalypse. Are your own Christian terrorist groups purely religious in nature or are they extensions of nationalistic zeal.

I have made my position quite clear; I think that religion is a retrograde force for humanity, I also think that different religions each do different levels of damage and that is dependent on a whole set of different cultural and philosophical variables. In certain conditions Christianity justifies violence and barbarity and we saw that for hundreds of years, the persecution of the Jews by Christians, the forced conversions of individuals, the crusades (although that is a double edged sword with Islam also being at fault) however it seems that the circumstances that justify religiously mandated violence are a lot more prevalent in the Islamic world where we do see genuine religious war being waged between certain sects and other religions and belief systems, governments, ethnic groups. Modern day extremist Christianity does not produce nearly as many suicide bombers, dhimmi laws or mass murderers as radical Islam. The reasons for this are economic prosperity, good government, democracy, human rights and secularism. When the Islamic world can achieve such things then the problems of extremism and terrorism will be greatly diminished and Islam as a faith will be on par with Christianity.

Yes all religions are completely capable of the same barbarism however to be capable of and to actually do are two completely different things. I will decry Christian gangs going off with violent homophobia and bigotry but I just do not see the same levels of violence and support for such violence in the Christian world as seen in the Islamic world. I do not blame people who practice their faith, it is a case of mental conditioning by religious leaders and government.
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Old 06-04-2005, 08:36 PM   #39
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Yes, but it is not for me to dictate to the artist which is more fitting to use.


I can see where you're coming from, I really can, but I really don't think that the artist was trying to pay any kind of tribute. It's fairly obvious that if you cover something with piss/shit, it's not going to be taken as praise. But I guess to each his own.

Even though, in my eyes, that piece of "art" sounds like a disgrace.
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Old 06-04-2005, 08:43 PM   #40
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Christian terrorists really rank very low on the scale of terrorists. Their goals are generally not religious in nature, can you name me a purely religious Christian Terrorist organisation that has the means and the support to bring about their own vision of the apocalypse. Are your own Christian terrorist groups purely religious in nature or are they extensions of nationalistic zeal.
I would not agree that "Christian terrorists really rank very low on the scale of terrorists". I would also question that any terrorist group has the means and support, at this point, to bring about their own vision of the apocalypse.

Ever hear of these guys, as a particularly bloodthirsty example of terrorists flying the Christian banner:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LRA
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Old 06-04-2005, 08:50 PM   #41
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Originally posted by financeguy


Did you read all of my post, as I specified why I thought that it was?

I would have interpreted it as being a commentary on the physicality of the human nature of the suffering of Christ.
I read what you wrote, but frankly, it doesn't give me any clue as to why urine is symbolic of the human nature of the suffering of Christ. I have never heard of pee being a symbol of human suffering.
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Old 06-04-2005, 08:53 PM   #42
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And you know what? That dude has the legal right to paint that crap if he wants to, but my tax dollars shouldn't have to pay to support his endeavors, whether they're offensive or not. Down with the NEA!
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Old 06-04-2005, 08:56 PM   #43
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Piss Christ Talk in the other room...

there is a big difference between a POW and NEA art.

http://forum.interference.com/t129780.html
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Old 06-04-2005, 08:59 PM   #44
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
And you know what? That dude has the legal right to paint that crap if he wants to, but my tax dollars shouldn't have to pay to support his endeavors, whether they're offensive or not. Down with the NEA!
I agree, taxpayers' money should not be used to finance controversial works of art.
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Old 06-04-2005, 09:02 PM   #45
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I don't think taxpayers' money should be used to fund any art.
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