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Old 06-04-2005, 12:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by theblazer
Muslims blow other Muslims and their Mosques up, but we have to appologize for kicking a book?

This world is ass-backwards and the US has become apologists for everything. I refuse to praise, lift up, and feel sympathy for prisoners while trashing US soldiers.

This thread starter and the tiltle of this thread make me want to vomit.
I would strongly recommend you read all of my posts from the last four years.....

Apparently I get it from both sides.....

And FYI....I am a former US Army MP E-5 and I can tell you I was not trained to do these kinds of things nor would I have.
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Old 06-04-2005, 12:18 PM   #17
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Thoses detainees should get a lesson in proper handling of the Koran.
I can think of plausible explanations for the reports of the detainees renouncing their religions. For example, they could have been trying to curry favour with the guards.
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Old 06-04-2005, 12:20 PM   #18
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Originally posted by financeguy

And you're remarks about the thread starter are a little misguided.


Thanks.........Its not every day I am defended by the left.
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Old 06-04-2005, 12:22 PM   #19
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For the record, when my own governement comes out and admits these things, I feel compelled to apologize.

I think everyone in here knows that I will defend the servicemen and women almost to a fault.....

But in this instance, I am very embarassed.
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Old 06-04-2005, 12:22 PM   #20
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Originally posted by Dreadsox




Thanks.........Its not every day I am defended by the left.
Cheers!

P.S. For the record, I see myself as a free market libertarian rather than a leftist though on the Iraq war I probably would tend to side with the left (as you may have guessed)!
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Old 06-04-2005, 01:00 PM   #21
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I don't see the need in trashing the starter of this thread. Dreadsox is one of my favorite FYM posters, he's one of the fairest, most respectful and thoughtful posters here. As a liberal, I don't always agree with his posts as he leans conservative, but that's beside the point. I think his post was excellent, this has got to be painful to many veterans of the military who served their country. There is simply no excuse for this behavior on the part of U.S. military.
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Old 06-04-2005, 01:09 PM   #22
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he's one of the fairest, most respectful and thoughtful posters here.
Not always...but I try....

Thanks VERTE!
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Old 06-04-2005, 01:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by theblazer
Muslims blow other Muslims and their Mosques up, but we have to appologize for kicking a book?
If it were not for the indignant comments and cheap swipe at Dread, we actually had a statement worth discussing here.
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Old 06-04-2005, 06:43 PM   #24
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I second the opinion, Dreadsox. You got the proper training..you. it appears, hail from a not-so-distant era when the people in charge were true professionals, solid, decent, GOD-FEARING men who took their jobs seriously and didn't let little things like pettiness and personal grudges interfere with their work. And they oversaw and participated in FAR WORSE conflicts then this little shindig we're in now. I often wonder how these jokers in command of our Armed Forces would have stood up to the great heroes of the past, how they would have acted in times such as WWII, who steered this country through the threat of Hitler, etc?

I am not speaking of the military rank and file..I'm talking about Rumsfeld and his little cabal who daily continue to soil and defame a great institution. It IS a case of "a few rotten apples", indeed, but those apples are at the very top, not the bottom. I have many friends in the milarary, and oneof them is a t the exact opposite of me politcally, but we both agree on this stuff.

How would some of YOU like it if communion bread were flushed down a toilet, and someone relieved themsleves into a chalice of Communion wine? We're not even talking the Bible here. And they could, upon thse grounds, justify this act by saying, hey, it's not a Bible.

I shouldn't have to say any further.

Oh..and FinanceGuy..I should hope that things will remain normal in your part of the woods, now that Trimble's out and the Looney Tunes on both sides are back in charg.I have hope however. The people have tasted the benefits of peace too long. And Ireland isn't the Palestinain Territories. No walls are going up anytime soon. The damage may well reamin largely political.
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Old 06-04-2005, 06:54 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
For the record, when my own governement comes out and admits these things, I feel compelled to apologize.

I think everyone in here knows that I will defend the servicemen and women almost to a fault.....

But in this instance, I am very embarassed.
Embarrassed by something the US has done; join the club. It's getting bigger everyday...unfortunately.
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Old 06-04-2005, 07:17 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by theblazer
Muslims blow other Muslims and their Mosques up, but we have to appologize for kicking a book?
I suppose if it were a Mosque full of "infidels' maybe they can justify it to themselves. In fact, I think they have justification of their own for killing other Muslims. Like those who associate with Jews or Americans.

As far as apologizing for kicking a book, it's the military itself, policing itself. Saying "we hold ourselves to a higher standard". So in that respect, I admire that they want to investigate it and try to live up to the standard.

War is an ugly thing and I am sure that some of the prisoners at Gitmo have had their share of abuse, but I don't think it's the norm. It's like our POW's in all of our wars, some were treated fairly, others were brutally tortured.

Here we don't even have POW's, and most of them are treated better than American soldiers were in almost any war we've ever had. But the difference is, we hold ourselves to a higher standard, at least try to anyways.

Let those cowardly bastards do what they want, kill their own, blow up their own churches, whatever they want to do wouldn't surprise me. But just because they do that, doesn't mean I would expect the American soldiers to relax from being humane.

It's about the circle of what can come back to you. Let's say we go to war with Iran, and they get some of our POW's. What sort of liscence do you think they will take from reading all of this "abuse". Lighthearted or not to you or I, it's serious to them and at some point could reflect right back on the soldiers fighting these wars.

Which is precisely why their superiors are trying to police this.
Because we want to treat others good, not only because it's the right thing to do, but because we want opposition to treat our prisoners fairly.

Then again these aren't even POW's, so maybe it's not analagous.
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Old 06-04-2005, 07:23 PM   #27
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But urine on a Koran is art, Piss Koran ~ it makes a bold statement about the deconstructed text itself. It should be put on tour as high art.
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Old 06-04-2005, 07:28 PM   #28
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^the government could fund that one....
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Old 06-04-2005, 07:44 PM   #29
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
But urine on a Koran is art, Piss Koran ~ it makes a bold statement about the deconstructed text itself. It should be put on tour as high art.
This is a reference to the "Piss-Christ" artwork a few years back, I take it?

I take it you do understand the difference between:

(1) A prison guard pissing on the Koran to psychologically intimidate Muslim prisoners.

(2) An artistic commentary on the suffering of the crucified Christ.

If Christ was fully human and fully God, then being fully a human of course he ate, slept, urinated and defecated.

It is also a matter of biogical fact that someone being crucified probably would p*** and s*** themselves.

For the record, at the time the whole media hullaboo over "Piss-Christ" erupted I was still a practising Christian and I DID NOT FIND THE ART WORK IN ANY WAY OFFENSIVE. (Was I supposed to??)

I think the only thing your above comments show is that:

(1) Intelligent though you are, art ain't your forte.

(2) As an atheist, you appear to be inconsistent in that you will happily slag off Islam at every opportunity, but I have yet to read a post of yours criticising the excesses of the Christian right or the misdeeds of terrorists wearing the Christian banner (in the latter case, as I said previously, I can list numerous examples, not least in my own country). I think there is a huge level of ignorance/naivetie on here and possibly in the Western world in general regarding this particular issue of terrorists wearing the Christian banner.
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Old 06-04-2005, 08:09 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy

(2) An artistic commentary on the suffering of the crucified Christ.
I don't understand how that work of "art" was a commentary on the suffering of Christ.
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