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Old 08-23-2005, 01:43 PM   #16
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Originally posted by u2bonogirl

because the more stupid people are having sex, even with condoms, the more are going to use it improperly or just become a statistic on a health clinic wall
to put it bluntly
But what's the alternative? If you don't teach it at all then you'll just have stupid people having sex but they don't know what condoms are even for.

Just from my experience, the friends of mine that got pregnant early were those from households that made their kids sit out on the public school sex programs and taught them absitinence...
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Old 08-23-2005, 01:45 PM   #17
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Im not saying not to teach it
I was just giving you my point of view on how kids having condoms might lead to higher birth rates.
The time I most considered having sex as a young teen was when I had a condom in my posession and I wanted to use it
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Old 08-23-2005, 01:45 PM   #18
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What exactly would an abistinence first programme in US high schools teach? Is it that sex outside marriage is wrong? Is it that you shouldn't have sex until you reach a particular age? Is it that you shouldn't have sex unless in a relationship that's lasted a specific length of time?
I don't think it's a bad idea to encourage kids to wait until they're married before having sex. I KNOW, it sounds so impractical. But ask yourself if you regretted waiting until you did have sex. If you are bummed out by the sex you missed, than I guess I'm wrong, but typically it hurts the individual more when you have sex too soon than having sex too late. You carry every person you've had sex with you for the rest of your life. You remember them. Even if you'd like to forget them -- You remember them more if you've got a kid, and maybe hate them more if they gave you an STD.


http://www.heritage.org/Research/Africa/BG1692es.cfm


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Executive Summary: The White House Initiative to Combat AIDS: Learning from Uganda
by Joseph Loconte
Executive Summary #1692

September 30, 2003 | |



Earlier this year, the Bush Administration persuaded Congress to authorize $15 billion over the next five years to fight the AIDS pandemic in Africa and the Caribbean. The U.S. Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, Tuberculosis, and Malaria Act of 2003 is a bold legislative effort. About 42 million people worldwide are dying of AIDS or are infected with the HIV virus that causes the disease. Of these individuals, 29 million live in Africa. In addition, Africa is home to a staggering 11 million orphans who have lost their parents to AIDS.

These facts carry political as well as moral implications: Failure to confront the pandemic in nations ravaged by AIDS is a recipe for economic decline and social chaos.

The Bush Administration is basing its AIDS initiative on the success of Uganda, which has experienced the greatest decline in HIV prevalence of any country in the world. Studies show that from 1991 to 2001, HIV infection rates in Uganda declined from about 15 percent to 5 percent. How did Uganda do it?

The best evidence suggests that the crucial factor was a national campaign to discourage risky sexual behaviors that contribute to the spread of the disease. Beginning in the mid-1980s, the Ugandan government, working closely with community and faith-based organizations, delivered a consistent AIDS prevention message: Abstain from sex until marriage, Be faithful to your partner, or use Condoms if abstinence and fidelity are not practiced.

The effect was to create what researchers call a "social vaccine" against HIV: a set of cultural values that encouraged more responsible sexual attitudes and behaviors. Uganda's "ABC" approach is now widely acknowledged as being linked to the dramatic reduction in the nation's HIV/AIDS rate. Based on the best research data available, several lessons can be drawn from Uganda's experience:

High-risk sexual behaviors can be discouraged and replaced by healthier lifestyles.
Abstinence and marital fidelity appear to be the most important factors in preventing the spread of HIV/AIDS.
Condoms do not play the primary role in reducing HIV/AIDS transmission.
Religious organizations are crucial participants in the fight against AIDS.
The White House correctly insists that U.S. AIDS policy be based on these lessons and the best available research about effective prevention and treatment programs. "The Ugandan model has the most to teach the rest of the world," says Dr. Edward Green, a senior research scientist at Harvard and author of Rethinking AIDS Prevention. "This policy should guide the development of programs in Africa and the Caribbean funded under the President's initiative." Jeff Spieler, chief of the research division in the U.S. Agency for International Development's population office, says: "It just happens to be where the evidence is pointing."

Congress should follow the evidence as well. Although it has approved the President's initiative, Congress is still debating whether to follow Uganda's ABC approach. Lawmakers should be guided by good data, not ideology, in the upcoming appropriations and confirmation debates.

The President's AIDS initiative faces profound challenges. First, most of the African continent lacks the health care infrastructure required to treat HIV/AIDS and other deadly diseases effectively. Second, many African governments are either unprepared to face their AIDS crisis seriously or too corrupt and unaccountable to mount effective treatment campaigns. Finally, international AIDS organizations and activists continue to ignore the success of Uganda while promoting flawed approaches to disease prevention.

To promote the most effective AIDS policy for developing nations, Congress should:

Endorse effective prevention policy by insisting that AIDS funding uphold the ABC program emphasis on abstinence and marital fidelity;
Ensure that programs for high-risk groups, such as commercial sex workers and drug addicts, make rescue and recovery a major program goal;
Empower non-governmental organizations (NGOs) while protecting their right to fight AIDS without compromising their moral and religious beliefs;
Sharply limit the U.S. contribution to international AIDS organizations until their policies reflect the best AIDS prevention and treatment programs available; and
Insist that the President's nominee for Global AIDS Coordinator fully endorse the ABC prevention model.
The Bush Administration's AIDS initiative is a bold and ambitious plan to tackle a pandemic that is ravaging the lives of millions of people across Africa and the Caribbean. The White House seems to understand that the favorite solution of Western public health elites--a "condom airlift" for the continent--would be a medical and moral disaster. It was precisely this approach that was roundly rejected by Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni. "We made it our highest priority to convince our people to return to their traditional values of chastity and faithfulness or, failing that, to use condoms," Museveni told drug company executives during a June meeting in Washington. "The alternative was decimation."

Critics of the Administration's AIDS policy for Africa should meditate long and hard on that alternative.
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Old 08-23-2005, 01:47 PM   #19
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Originally posted by u2bonogirl
Wouldnt it teach that its not always wise to just act on your impulse, and inform kids of consequences to consider before taking risks that theyre not ready to deal with?
Was that in response to my question about "abstinence first"? If so, I don't see that there's any contradiction between advising young people that they should be cautious and responsible when making the decision to have sex and advising them that once they've made that decision they should take adequte precautions against pregnancy or STIs.
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Old 08-23-2005, 01:50 PM   #20
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Originally posted by starsforu2
I don't think it's a bad idea to encourage kids to wait until they're married before having sex. I KNOW, it sounds so impractical. But ask yourself if you regretted waiting until you did have sex. If you are bummed out by the sex you missed, than I guess I'm wrong, but typically it hurts the individual more when you have sex too soon than having sex too late. You carry every person you've had sex with you for the rest of your life. You remember them. Even if you'd like to forget them -- You remember them more if you've got a kid, and maybe hate them more if they gave you an STD.
So teach people that they should think carefully before having sex and make an informed and responsible decision. That won't always mean not having sex outside of marriage, perhaps for some people it does, for others it doesn't.
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Old 08-23-2005, 01:51 PM   #21
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Originally posted by u2bonogirl
Im not saying not to teach it
Well then you can see how I'm perplexed as to how educating someone will lead to higher rates?

So teaching them will lead to higher rates? But not teaching them is wrong?
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Old 08-23-2005, 01:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Was that in response to my question about "abstinence first"? If so, I don't see that there's any contradiction between advising young people that they should be cautious and responsible when making the decision to have sex and advising them that once they've made that decision they should take adequte precautions against pregnancy or STIs.
Yes, that was in response to your question.
I guess there would be a different undercurrent to the teaching.
There would be one that says: look we know youre going to do it so do it safely and heres how.
And another that says: We know you really think youre ready but here are some things to consider before you make a decision. Heres why its better to just abstain right now.
And teach all the adeqate lessons on the body, and how it all works, and the methods of birth control and how to use them...stats....etc.
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Old 08-23-2005, 01:53 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Was that in response to my question about "abstinence first"? If so, I don't see that there's any contradiction between advising young people that they should be cautious and responsible when making the decision to have sex and advising them that once they've made that decision they should take adequte precautions against pregnancy or STIs.

oh, stop. you're making sense and sounding thoroughly logical.



Irvine thinks he's getting FYM fatigue and can't bear to debate this one again yet can't not comment because it's too important that kids know how to protect themselves and could point to mountains of evidence that government-funded (!!!) abstinence-only programs grossly distort science and while they are successful in getting kids to delay intercourse for a year or two, when intercourse does happen it is less likely to be protected, and that pretty much everyone would discourage *anyone* 16 or younger from having sex and that the mere discussion of condoms and contraception is not a permission slip to go hump in the bathrooms after class.

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Old 08-23-2005, 01:54 PM   #24
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Well then you can see how I'm perplexed as to how educating someone will lead to higher rates?

So teaching them will lead to higher rates? But not teaching them is wrong?
I'm not saying that educating will lead to higher rates. Im saying that a 13 or 14 year old boy or girl is more likely to go have sex if they have a condom.
Good education should actually make somebody think harder about the decision to sleep with someone
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Old 08-23-2005, 01:55 PM   #25
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Good education should actually make somebody think harder about the decision to sleep with someone
I agree.
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Old 08-23-2005, 01:55 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


So teach people that they should think carefully before having sex and make an informed and responsible decision. That won't always mean not having sex outside of marriage, perhaps for some people it does, for others it doesn't.
I'm cool with that synopsis. You can't control behavior, but to a certain degree you can encourage behavior.
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Old 08-23-2005, 01:57 PM   #27
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oh, stop. you're making sense and sounding thoroughly logical.



Irvine thinks he's getting FYM fatigue and can't bear to debate this one again yet can't not comment because it's too important that kids know how to protect themselves and could point to mountains of evidence that government-funded (!!!) abstinence-only programs grossly distort science and while they are successful in getting kids to delay intercourse for a year or two, when intercourse does happen it is less likely to be protected, and that pretty much everyone would discourage *anyone* 16 or younger from having sex and that the mere discussion of condoms and contraception is not a permission slip to go hump in the bathrooms after class.

Send me the link... I want to read it for myself. If I agree with the source I'll stop beating the drum.
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Old 08-23-2005, 02:02 PM   #28
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Send me the link... I want to read it for myself. If I agree with the source I'll stop beating the drum.
Whoa, just reread your thread... I'm not for abstinence ONLY programs. Don't worry about sending me the link.

I just believe that peer pressure and instruction works. I think when the dominant philosophy is to wait, most do. Or more do than if the dominant philosophy is do it when you feel you're ready.
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Old 08-23-2005, 02:06 PM   #29
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They could always show the STD slides I had to watch my senior year. If that doesn't make you zip up your pants, nothing will.
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Old 08-23-2005, 02:06 PM   #30
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http://www.heritage.org/Research/Africa/BG1692es.cfm


We start talking about the Uganda program about halfway down this page. The information is hugely misrepresented.

http://forum.interference.com/showth...S&pagenumber=3
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