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Old 04-30-2003, 12:05 PM   #31
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Islam is a victim of Christianity.
History is history. Neither one of these religions are innocent, especially in regards to the Crusades. Both had an almost idolatrous preoccupation with the "Holy Land," a problem that I think Judaism-Christianity-Islam still has today. It's just dirt like any other.

To pass judgment on the cultures of 1000 years ago is difficult, because I can dare to say that life will be equally totally different 1000 years from now.

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Old 04-30-2003, 12:12 PM   #32
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I don't think it really matters, in my opinion. I think God is everything, because man certainly is. We have a very narrow perception of what "nature" is, and that has a lot to do with the ethnocentric attitudes of the Old Testament. Indeed, it would be like taking writings from today's Israel, which is surrounded by nations hostile to it, and exulting them as truth...and then, 2000 years later, stripping all context out of it.
Oh I totally agree. That question was posed more for a response to Rono's question.
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Old 04-30-2003, 02:02 PM   #33
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go melon
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Old 04-30-2003, 02:51 PM   #34
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Originally posted by melon
Islam invented Algebra

and we thank them for this?




Back to this point in seriousness though, just because they are evolved intellectually doesn't meant their culture is also evolved. Yes, it usually goes hand in hand, but it depends on who the intellectuals are.
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Old 04-30-2003, 10:07 PM   #35
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I honestly believe that no matter what, human life is to be respected... All to often man tries to play God.. It is sad, but it happens... Everywhere.
However, as I agree that human life is to be respected no matter what... This country and many other countries didn't respect the lives of Black, Asian, Hispanic, etc. (and even till today)...

Some countries develop slower.... I don't think we should be suprised that some of these countries won't accept homosexual rights, when they already have problems accepting womens rights... However, it is because they are at a totally different development stage... YOU GUYS SHOULD LAY OFF TRYING TO BLAME IT ON THE RELIGION...

What most people in this forum are neglecting to understand is that not all countries are at the same level as the US or West... Though Islam doesn't approve of homosexuality, as many other religions don't... Doesn't mean it is the fault of the religion... The fault lies in the reason why these countries have had a hard time developing...

Just to lay something out, in Pakistan there are many Gays and transvestites, however, people don't start beating them up or throwing them in jail... They have their own business... In general, people don't assosicate with that community..

I'm just trying to tell you people that you have to try and understand that sometimes two worlds don't see eye to eye on certain matters, but instead of getting all angry about eachother, you should try and disect the problem....
Every day people are injustly beaten up, everyday people get away with it... Over here in the US people are sentenced to death for crimes that they didn't commit... Over in the middle east people are unjustly put to death... It happens everywhere... AND IT MAKES ME SICK... BUT THIS IS REALITY, AND IT DOESNT' JUST HAPPEN IN ONE AREA OF THE WORLD.

I'm not trying to justify anything, I am honestly sad with how the Muslim countries have gone backwards in their ways of ruling... But, their is a reason why some of these countries aren't ruling in a liberal democracy manner... Its because their country wouldn't be able to handle it... Many of them are war torn and their education, healthcare, etc. systems have suffered. Thus, this has impeded any chance of true democratic development...

POINT BEING, THE PROBLEM DOESN'T LIE IN THE RELIGION, IT LIES IN THE PROBLEM OF THE DEVELOPMENT THESE COUNTRIES HAVE FACED, WHICH HAS TAKEN A TOLL ON THEIR INFRASTRUCTURE. THUS, PEOPLE HAVE LESS PATIENCE AND LESS EDUCATION TO BRODEN THEIR MINDS ...

For the person who said that the US should invade and implement themselves in these countries, don't be so sure of yourself.... How can you opress a country with a system that they are not ready for....>>>>> That calls for more agresssion and terrorism....
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Old 05-02-2003, 09:17 PM   #36
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But if you call your country a theocracy and try people by sharia law exclusively and essentially mix mosque and state...dont you open up your policy to criticism of both mosque and state?


I don't think it's about religion...or politics..but mixing the two. The area is pretty gray. I don't think that people mean to degrade islam. But when you do set up a an islamic policitcal complex dont' you make it an instiutiton? and much like the catholic church or Us government....open to criticism?
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Old 05-04-2003, 12:38 AM   #37
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People will critisize no matter what... But, its the extent of the critisizing focused in a certain area that gets us into a mess....
In general, I feel as though much of the agression, as shown in this forum, is focused on Islam.
-------
A state can have sharia law, but sharia law tries to inforce Islamic laws as best as possible, however, this does not provide the extent of punishment, it provides more of an Islamic based society.... Take for instance, Pakistan tries to follow Islamic based laws, they are trying to also inforce a democratic society... People in Pakistan drink, people have affairs, people dress skanky, kids hit the club every night, and guess what, suprise, suprise, they are not sentenced to jail or death...

Islamic interpritation varies, if a society is well educated and developed, then this provides a more stable, patient, and open-minded society....

PEOPLE CAN CRITISIZE MOSQUE, MULLA, AYOTALLAH, WHATEVER...
BUT, PEOPLE SHOULD NOT CRITISIZE THE RELIGION...

Relgion in general is a waste of argument... We should focus our attention on the "real problem".... That is the development, and health of the country..

And guess what, so the state is religious based.... The majority is lets say Muslim.... ok, so they call for an Islamic state... alright.

Where as the US, being the melting pot of the World, is generally run by White, Chrisitan, Jewish people... alright.

Ok, Israel is highly populated by Jewish people, thus their gov't is Jewish based... alright.

So does this mean we should critisize these countries for their relgious or ethnic run societies...
NO, if anything the critisizing should be saved for the leadership, or the economic health of the country....

Arguing about such a world-wide religion is stupid and a waste of time...?

Fine, go ahead, argue about the religion, guess what, you'll only build more of a clash between two worlds... Thus, the problem we are trying to solve will only become worst.
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Old 05-04-2003, 08:57 AM   #38
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The main problem in islam today is its fragmentation in dozens of different fractions who are in most cases hostile against each other, so for ppl who are not introduced well in this religion it is almost impossible to recognize the "real islam".
The palette varies from ultraconservative to liberal.

I wouldn't say that most muslims today are conservatives, or like "maninsidethechild" said "are living in the middle age". It depends from where you are. Islam in Malaysia, Indonesia, the Balkan and the Maghreb countries were always more moderate then for example in Aghanistan (The "burkha" is something you will never meet in a city in Albania).

But it is true that an increasing radikalization is taking place among the muslims, especially among the arabs last but not least due to the occupation (how do you call it in the USA.....aahh...liberation) of Iraq.

The fragmentation of islam today reflect itself in the lack of a consistant religios institution. For example about the suicide bombings. Most of the ulema (islamic scholars) are saying that it is against islam, because killing of civilians and sucicide are prohibited both. But other "scholars" excuse those attacks as self defense.

I am a muslim. And I am angry about the fact that the muslim clergy is unable to agree about this point (and many others), as well as I'm sick of the anti-jew propaganda among the muslims.
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Old 05-04-2003, 10:19 AM   #39
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So then is it the Muslim clergy we should single out?
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Old 05-05-2003, 05:15 AM   #40
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Well...unfortunetely we don't have a pope who could tell us what is right or wrong ;-)
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Old 05-05-2003, 05:30 AM   #41
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Like I said, the problem is the fragmentation of today's islam. Also a lot of muslims really don't know their religion well as well as not few of them / us are not muslims because they are pretty convinced about Islam but their parents and grandparents were also muslims so it is something like a "tradition".

And if those about their religion uninformed ppl are in a very bad situation like for example the palestinians, the radicals have a walk-over to recrute suicide bombers.

And about the muslim clergy:

If they had agreed on to overrule suicide attacks, the radicals couldn't recrute more ppl. They could not justify those attacks.
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