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Old 04-25-2003, 10:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
While Islam might be this "cool" little anthropological antiquity for Western liberals, no one, no matter what part of the world it is in, has the right to abuse and murder people of different beliefs. I don't care who or where it is: it is not right that the dominant religion of any part of the world can marginalize, abuse, or execute homosexuals. Period.

It is the trap of any religion to assume the roles which lie solely with God. Judgment always seems to be the favorite - and it is always imperfect in man's hands.
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Old 04-25-2003, 11:15 PM   #17
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we also have to remember that islam is not as evolved as christianity and judaism.... a few hundred years ago gays were marginalized and sometimes persecuted for there sexual orientation by both christians and jews....
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Old 04-25-2003, 11:28 PM   #18
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we also have to remember that islam is not as evolved as christianity and judaism
Islam has been around a long time and, for many years, was known for its intellectual enlightenment.
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Old 04-25-2003, 11:36 PM   #19
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Islam has been around a long time and, for many years, was known for its intellecutal enlightenment.
Exactly. Islam invented Algebra and had quite the complex architecture. Plus, where do you think we got "1-9" from? They're not called "Arabic numerals" for nothing.

All the more reason I'm disappointed with its current state.

Melon
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Old 04-25-2003, 11:42 PM   #20
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to expand,

i think the muslims today are much like the medieval christians may have been... Today's muslims are for the mostpart very conservative, by the book, superstitious, anti-material and faith-filled as medieval European Christians were a millennium ago. Also, European Christians were afraid of the consequenses of going against the church in there beliefs... just as Galileo did when he said that the earth revolves around the sun, and not the opposite as the bible says...

But Christians evolved out of the churches grip on society in to a more free, and open-minded sphere. It may take years before muslims in the middle east do the same, thereby being open minded enough to accept women as equals or homosexuality.
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Old 04-26-2003, 12:13 AM   #21
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Re: Muslim's stop UN vote on gay rights.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Muslim alliance derails UN's gay rights resolution


"The vote has been derailed and delayed by Islamic fundamentalist states where gay people are either jailed, flogged or beheaded."

Hmmm -- proof that banning sodomy doesn't prevent polygamy!
Paging Sen. Rick!
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Old 04-26-2003, 09:30 AM   #22
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Originally posted by foray
As far as I know, Malaysians don't get flogged or beheaded for being gay. But sodomy is a crime in every state, so people do get jailed. Also, there's a great underground culture of Muslim gays and they roam certain parts of the city freely, including trannies. Just want to clarify.

foray
No, but they do get thrown in jail, just for being homosexual. I read earlier this week that a former vice-president of Malaysia got a jail sentence on counts of homosexuality. Of course, he had no help from the president himself as that one was of a different political party...



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Old 04-26-2003, 12:13 PM   #23
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I'm sure not all Moslems are prejudiced against gays. Unfortunately, some of their leaders are, and this is enough to do alot of damage in terms of human rights abuses. Ugh.
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Old 04-26-2003, 03:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Exactly. Islam invented Algebra and had quite the complex architecture. Plus, where do you think we got "1-9" from? They're not called "Arabic numerals" for nothing.

All the more reason I'm disappointed with its current state.

Melon

they are called "Hindu- Arabic numerals"
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Old 04-26-2003, 07:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Popmartijn

No, but they do get thrown in jail, just for being homosexual

Marty
Which is what I said, but not quite. The crime is sodomy not homosexuality; of course, I'm all too aware how ridiculous that rule is but I don't make it. It is possible to be an openly gay Malay in Malaysia. More to clarify: we have a prime minister, not a president; and Anwar (the former deputy) was from the same party as Dr Mahathir (the PM) - it was only after his infamous sacking that he (& his wife & many others) formed a separate party that makes up a strong opposition.

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Old 04-27-2003, 07:04 AM   #26
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Foray,

Thanks for the clarification. I had read a bit about it, but obviously didn't know the exact details.

C ya!

Marty
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Old 04-30-2003, 05:04 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Islam has been around a long time and, for many years, was known for its intellectual enlightenment.
And than came the crusades, the colonizations and the christians with the superb morality and it was over,...


I wonder if God is gay, he created the man in his image,...
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Old 04-30-2003, 11:17 AM   #28
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I wonder if God is gay, he created the man in his image,...
Does God have sexuality?
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Old 04-30-2003, 11:38 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rono
And than came the crusades, the colonizations and the christians with the superb morality and it was over,...
Islam is a victim of Christianity.
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Old 04-30-2003, 12:02 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Does God have sexuality?
I don't think it really matters, in my opinion. I think God is everything, because man certainly is. We have a very narrow perception of what "nature" is, and that has a lot to do with the ethnocentric attitudes of the Old Testament. Indeed, it would be like taking writings from today's Israel, which is surrounded by nations hostile to it, and exulting them as truth...and then, 2000 years later, stripping all context out of it.

At the larger picture (and not speaking to BonoVoxSupastar here, specifically):

Let nature speak for itself. Every bit of man is subject to genetic variances from our arbitrary classification of "normal." Left-handed people in a right-handed world. Albinos in a pigmented society. Three year olds with minds so advanced that they can graduate college by the time they are ten. People with six fingers or people missing limbs from birth. And I can go on and on and on. The problem with society is that we look at such variances as automatically "negative" and we ridicule those who are different. All I want to say is that if every part of humanity is subject to variances from the "norm"--and I assure you, that absolutely everything is--then why would one's sexuality be the *only* exception? Because of the Bible and our narrowly romanticized interpretations of it? I don't need specific, concrete proof that homosexuality is a natural part of nature, because it would, frankly, be illogical *not* for it to be. It may continue to confound people as to why God creates people who are "different," but who has classified what is "normal"? Man, and man will always fail to see the larger picture of God's plan, because it is larger than all of us combined.

I will continue to pray that the world's religions will wake up someday and realize the glory of what God has created. We constantly mourn our lives, fearing that we "aren't good enough," when, as a race, we have done so much, both at a technological level and at a humanist level. Despite fearmongering media reports, we are at our most peaceful point in millennia. Have we forgotten that Europe was embroiled in incessant wars for centuries? Sure, we have our challenges today, as we always have, but I would imagine who God dislikes the most are those who invoke His name to instill fear, control, and violence. There is still so much of that going on today, and I find it disheartening that His institutions and their followers are often at the forefront of intolerance, discrimination, and violence. I don't care how "born again" one may think they are; actions speak louder than words.

Melon
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