MSNBC reports Al-Zarqawi killed in Iraq - Page 6 - U2 Feedback

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Old 06-08-2006, 08:47 PM   #76
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Originally posted by U2DMfan


Define murder.

I know what you're trying to say, but apparently you don't understand the capacity to defend oneself.
Defend? You do realize this was a war of choice and we went in there unprovoked? I hope you realize this.
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Old 06-08-2006, 09:01 PM   #77
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And I say that there is a distinction between a case where the intelligence says that there is a terrorist hiding out in a house shared by a family and then launching a missile strike versus a situation where the information says that there isn't a family in the building.

You insist that it is detatched and bizare, could you elaborate?
fair question

as you describe
is not the case.

i say they knowingly send in planes with 500 pound bombs knowing there are other occupants in buildings with targets

if they knew there was a woman and baby in Al-Zarqawi building it would not have mattered
and there will not be much of an out cry about killing innocents because he was so hated.


the detachment I refer to
is saying a reprimant is sufficient for killing many innocent civilans
that was the case below.

Quote:
The investigation of the March 15 attack in Ishaqi concluded the U.S. troops followed normal procedures in raising the level of force as they came under attack upon approaching a building where they believed an al-Qaida terrorist was hiding, said Maj. Gen. William Caldwell, a U.S military spokesman.

Caldwell also acknowledged there were “possibly up to nine collateral deaths” in addition to the four Iraqi deaths that the military announced at the time of the raid.
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Old 06-09-2006, 12:51 AM   #78
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Another "we got him "moment that will not change a lot. Good that he is gone but i have heard that he is responsable for about 10 % of the attacks. The fact that he was fighting in person also make me think that he was expecting to be killed one day so i guess new leaders are already in place.


My thoughts go out to the child that is killed and his name is collateral damage.
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Old 06-09-2006, 01:17 AM   #79
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Defend? You do realize this was a war of choice and we went in there unprovoked? I hope you realize this.
Uh, of course I realize that. Did you miss the context of the discussion or do you assert that all of this killing is murder because of the politics that got us into the war?

I am only talking about soldiers having the right to defend themselves by killing those trying to kill them. Not the US defending itself against the wrath of Sadaam's tin can army.
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Old 06-09-2006, 01:48 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rono
Good that he is gone but i have heard that he is responsable for about 10 % of the attacks. The fact that he was fighting in person also make me think that he was expecting to be killed one day so i guess new leaders are already in place.
I'm curious about the "10%" thing-----please elaborate.
Also, i'm wondering how he was "fighting in person?" He was running things while hiding. His messages to the world, as well as the beheadings he personally carried out, were presented on videotape---not in person.

Anyway, I'm glad he's gone.
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Old 06-09-2006, 02:45 AM   #81
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I find the reaction from Nick Berg's father quite interesting. I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, but still curious.




http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...iew/index.html
Michael Berg, father of American businessman Nicholas Berg, whom is it believed al-Zarqawi beheaded in May 2004

"I'm sorry whenever any human being dies. Zarqawi is a human being. He has a family who are reacting just as my family reacted when Nick was killed and I feel badly for that.

"I feel doubly badly, though, because Zarqawi is also a political figure and his death will re-ignite yet another wave of revenge and revenge is something that I do not follow, that I do not ask for, that I do not wish for against anybody. It's an endless cycle. As long as people use violence to combat violence we will always have violence."


I find Mr. Berg's remarkable and filled with the type of humanity this world needs more of. (I'm sure Ann Coulter would have a very different take on Mr. Berg, however).

Personally, I think it is for the best and helpful that Zarqawi is gone, but I think it's in poor taste to celebrate and hope for additional (and eternal) suffering for him.

War is serious buisness--necessary business, sometimes-- and it should be approached with solemnity due to the fact that we're dealing with taking human lives. This war in Iraq, was, I believe unnecessary and has done more harm than good, but now that we are there we really have to finish what we started. And if that means killing one of the most dangerous leaders of the insurgency than so be it. But to whoop and holler about it, to me shows a certain amount of ignorance about the nature of war and the toll it takes not just on the dead but those who survive it.

War is ugly, fucked up buisness, and it should never be entered into lightly.

I'd also add that the U.S. is not the "world's greatest terrorist". Hyperbole from the left or the right irritates me to no end and doesn't help the overheated political climate we're already living in.

Finally, regarding "collateral damage"--again expecting a war to take place and no innocents be killed is really wishful thinking. As I said before war is ugly, fucked up business and let me add that it is also messy. I think the U.S. so far has made a commendable effort to avoid "collateral damage" and I think that's the most anyone can expect. It would be one thing if we were setting off bombs in supermarkets or hotels where weddings are taking place hoping to hit a few stray terrorists in the process.
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Old 06-09-2006, 02:58 AM   #82
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Good fucking riddance.
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Old 06-09-2006, 04:58 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2DMfan


Uh, of course I realize that. Did you miss the context of the discussion or do you assert that all of this killing is murder because of the politics that got us into the war?

I am only talking about soldiers having the right to defend themselves by killing those trying to kill them. Not the US defending itself against the wrath of Sadaam's tin can army.
Then you are missing the context completley...

There is no "defense" in this war, unless it's the unforunate solidier that is attacked.
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Old 06-09-2006, 07:46 AM   #84
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I cant believe this thread. Yet, I can, as well.
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Old 06-09-2006, 08:28 AM   #85
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Most people don't and won't "celebrate" his death-I don't celebrate it but on the other hand he was an evil terrorist killer. That doesn't mean I celebrate his death but he was.

The whole situation there is sad and ugly beyond words, and no terrorist death can change that. Won't change the situation there and won't change the fact that people are dying there every day. Tragically, unnoticed, forgotten. Pictures not held up in a gold frame for the world to see. Children, mothers, fathers, young men, young women.
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Old 06-09-2006, 08:39 AM   #86
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I agree with you, Mrs S.
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Old 06-09-2006, 08:48 AM   #87
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Sayonara, M.F.'er!!!
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Old 06-09-2006, 10:18 AM   #88
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I don't celebrate his death but I also don't think the fact that I'm glad he is gone so that he can't kill and carry out terrorist acts anymore makes me a horrible person either. Obviously there are plenty of others who will step in an carry on his activities, so ultimately this changes nothing and isn't the solution for eradicating terrorism.


huffingtonpost

"This struck me as instantly odd: The White House released its "Statement by the President on Death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi" press release at 7:31a.m. EDT, and included a photo of a sombre-faced President Bush delivering the statement in the Rose Garden as he gripped the podium, tensely focused. Too bad it was but a thumbnail compared to the photo at left. Who, exactly, thought it would be a good idea to include this picture of Bush kicking back on the phone in the Oval Office? This photo does not say "We have tough days ahead of us in Iraq that will require the continued patience of the American people," it says "Yo, Tony! Howsabout we grab a brewsky later over nachos in the West Wing kitchenette?" I have no idea if there is a West Wing kitchenette but I do know that this is probably not the most effective photograph to convey a stronger, more presidential Bush."

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Old 06-09-2006, 10:28 AM   #89
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What I find interesting is that the military said they got an inside tip on Zarqawi's whereabouts, and there were previously scattered reports suggesting Al Quaida was at odds with Zarqawi over several matters (can't remember off the top of my head).

My thought is, what if it was Al Quaida who purposely tipped off his location to get rid of him?

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Old 06-09-2006, 11:24 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean

War is serious buisness--necessary business, sometimes-- and it should be approached with solemnity due to the fact that we're dealing with taking human lives. This war in Iraq, was, I believe unnecessary and has done more harm than good, but now that we are there we really have to finish what we started. And if that means killing one of the most dangerous leaders of the insurgency than so be it. But to whoop and holler about it, to me shows a certain amount of ignorance about the nature of war and the toll it takes not just on the dead but those who survive it.

War is ugly, fucked up buisness, and it should never be entered into lightly.


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