Mr. George W. Bush may go on to become one of our greatest Presidents of all time

[TylerDurden]

Originally posted by joyfulgirl:
I'm afraid that the average American doesn't know enough about the politics of other countries to even bash them. This may not apply to you, or to many people in this forum, but as an American who has traveled a lot in other countries, I am always shocked by how much everyone knows about us and how little I and most Americans I know know about them...

Anyway, I think Anthony has made himself perfectly clear and I don't understand why you are offended by his criticisms. We as Americans need to listen to just these kinds of criticisms in order to understand the deeper issues behind 9/11. It has been evident in my travels for years that much of the world has issues and resentments towards the US and I want to hear about it because I'm not going to understand why just by listening to our leaders. I don't want to slam the door and tell people to fuck off and stop bashing my country. I want to know.

THAT is the right attitude.
Might be the first time I've seen it here.

 

[TylerDurden]

Oh, and that argument going through this thread earlier about the US, its allies etc. If the US decides to go after Iraq again, watch what happens...

 

[Anthony]

the HORROR, I really don't understand how this got out of hand, I imagine I'm partially to blame for not 'phrasing' things properly, but I am the first to admit I am not the most diplomatic of writers, and I apologise for that.

Having said that, I do think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I never said your country was rubbish, I never insulted it and I never made an Anti-American comment, that I guarantee because I do not consider myself anti-American, I never have been anti-ANYONE. I have criticisms and I have praises, and I DO have praises for America, perhaps even more than criticisms, however, that if for another thread.

I don't care if you bash my country, which you haven't with your 'gossip criticism', I accept it because its true - we have a disgusting obsession with gossip, amongst other things. You see, I can only take as much as I give, and that works both ways.

I agree with absolutely everything FizzingWhizzbees has said, and no one, I don't think, hates the Monarchy as much as I do, however, the LOOOOOONG list I have concerning what is wrong with my country is too long and for another thread forum anyway. SHould the day ever come that someone 'bashes' the UK, I will be the first to admit the criticisms and also provide the 'upsides' of it.

Again, I am sorry you found my comments offensive and anti-American. And again, I know I have missed the point of the thread, all I'm trying to do is just make peace with you; I DON'T have any beef with you at all. True alliance isn't a politician's handshake, its the acceptance and respect of our ideas, I think.

Ant.

 

[Klodomir]

Originally posted by Lemonite:
And so Melon, I'd assume that you'd be against the jokes on Bush because it was a situation where her almost died.. Not a Laughing matter.. Right?

Actually, there wasn't a lot of laughing going on here at all. http://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/Forum11/HTML/001007.html

 

[Lemonite]

Originally posted by Klodomir:

Originally posted by Lemonite:
And so Melon, I'd assume that you'd be against the jokes on Bush because it was a situation where her almost died.. Not a Laughing matter.. Right?

Actually, there wasn't a lot of laughing going on here at all. http://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/Forum11/HTML/001007.html

But there were some cracks.. I'm sure you read it before you pasted the link.. I'm not going to cut and paste again, because it didn't sit well with someone last time I did it..

L.Unplugged

 

[the HORROR]

Originally posted by Anthony:

Again, I am sorry you found my comments offensive and anti-American. And again, I know I have missed the point of the thread, all I'm trying to do is just make peace with you; I DON'T have any beef with you at all. True alliance isn't a politician's handshake, its the acceptance and respect of our ideas, I think.

Ant.

Thanks Anthony for your thoughts, and don't sweat it man, I was out of line as well. We seem to operate differently, but as many others have said before, it's hard to see the intention of a post if you can't see the facial expression of the one posting.

CHEERS

------------------


"The only fitting memorial for those lives that were lost is the idea that the world is forever changed by this moment in time, that it is a better more inclusive place, & that we cut off the OXYGEN SUPPLY to these CRAZY FANATICS!" ~Bono 11/05/01


"So Mr. Bin Laden, I hear you have an intrest in our airplanes...Let me show you this one, we like to call it the B-52

 

[melon]

Originally posted by Lemonite:
But there were some cracks.. I'm sure you read it before you pasted the link.. I'm not going to cut and paste again, because it didn't sit well with someone last time I did it..

Typical Republican. Always demanding a monopoly on opinion and then accusing liberals of the same thing.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

 

[Lemonite]

Originally posted by melon:
Typical Republican. Always demanding a monopoly on opinion and then accusing liberals of the same thing.

Melon

Hahah.. No one is 'demanding' (Spoken in a Hank Hill Tone)... anything.. And I thought that you had vowed to stay away from partisanship?...

Then again.. Would it matter?

L.Unplugged

 

[LOVE MUSCLE]

Originally posted by melon:
Typical liberal. Always demanding a monopoly on opinion and then accusing Republicans of the same thing.

Melon

------------------

 

[joyfulgirl]

Originally posted by TylerDurden:

THAT is the right attitude.
Might be the first time I've seen it here.

It helps that my officemate is Australian--she keeps me in line.

 

[z edge]

I heard this today and found it relevant to this thread, and today being President's Day here in the US as well.

Apparently ABC does a poll each year of our favorite presidents, while I don't know the entire list, I will tell you the top three:

1. Abraham Lincoln
2. George W. Bush (tie)
John F. Kennedy
3. William J. Clinton (tie)
Ronald Reagan
????

I find it funny that Reagan could be tied with Clinton, and Bush with JFK. Last year, I think Reagan came in 2nd. You can see that they don't necessarily poll from one demographic.

 

[melon]

Originally posted by LOVE MUSCLE:

If you are going to troll threads now, the least you could do would be to reveal to everyone who you are.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

 

[bullet the blue sky]

This is great fun!

I really only have two points to make here. George W Bush may very well be one of the greatest American presidents of all time, but that will only be in America. Which is fair enough when you think about it. But outside of America, he is though of as a dangerous, out-of-touch, ignorant (Pakis?!! Please!), insular, gung-ho buffoon - a puppet of the oil trade. Much like his dad, in fact.

And if George W Bush is really that bothered about a war on terrorism rather than a war on countries that would result in little or no economic backlash (Salome has it right), then why did he get Tony Blair to go round all the countries over the past few months, rather than stay at home. Okay, America needed him in the months after September 11, but couldn't he have made at least a bit more effort to get out and about?

All that has happened is that America has closed ranks and turned in on itself. Whoever mentioned the lack of allies is right... one by one, they are all falling away. Even here in Britain there is a large backlash building about our involvement... should the US attack Iran or Iraq or Somalia soon, I doubt we'd back it... or at least our people would.

This isn't an anti-anyone rant. This is just a statement of fact.

 

[Lemonite]

Originally posted by z edge:

1. Abraham Lincoln
2. George W. Bush (tie)
John F. Kennedy
3. William J. Clinton (tie)
Ronald Reagan
????

Yah.. Apparently in this poll among Blacks.. Abraham Lincoln.. The president responsible for 'FREEING the SLAVES', finished Second to.. Bill Clinton.. Hahahaha.. I practically laughed my ass off when I heard this.. and You know why?.. In the words of Tony Morrison, Bill Clinton was in all senses of teh word a 'Black President', because he 'Cheated, Lied, and was Running from the Law'.. Just like Black men.. Or so she says.. Hahahahaa.. poor saps.. I think we need to send our prayers out to them Diamond.. Maybe include them in our latest Rosary.

L.Unplugged

 

[joyfulgirl]

Originally posted by z edge:
I heard this today and found it relevant to this thread, and today being President's Day here in the US as well.

Apparently ABC does a poll each year of our favorite presidents, while I don't know the entire list, I will tell you the top three:

1. Abraham Lincoln
2. George W. Bush (tie)
John F. Kennedy
3. William J. Clinton (tie)
Ronald Reagan
????

These are probably just the only Presidents the average American can name.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Originally posted by Lemonite:
Yah.. Apparently in this poll among Blacks.. Abraham Lincoln.. The president responsible for 'FREEING the SLAVES', finished Second to.. Bill Clinton.. Hahahaha.. I practically laughed my ass off when I heard this.. and You know why?.. In the words of Tony Morrison, Bill Clinton was in all senses of teh word a 'Black President', because he 'Cheated, Lied, and was Running from the Law'.. Just like Black men.. Or so she says.. Hahahahaa.. poor saps.. I think we need to send our prayers out to them Diamond.. Maybe include them in our latest Rosary.

L.Unplugged

Excuse me? I'm honestly finding it hard to believe that anyone could post something so offensive on a public message board.

I'm sorry, I don't want to start a fight, but I just find that comment absolutely disgusting. Racism is unacceptable. No exceptions. There are never circumstances under which it's acceptable to insult someone because of the colour of their skin. There's enough racism in this world already, let's try to at least keep this forum free from prejudices like that.

[This message has been edited by FizzingWhizzbees (edited 02-20-2002).]

 

[Achtung Bubba]

I may be wrong, but I *believe* that Lemonite was merely quoting Morrison, a black author.

 

[Lemonite]

Apparently you misunderstood me.. the great cause of many arguments and fights in this world.. (Just a tidbit of philosophy for the world)... Ah let's see where to start from, Ok, First of all, you've accused me of being a racist, That's a disgusting thing to do when you even admitted that you were possibly speculating.. That's like yelling Rape because you were too much of a Ho to admit to sleeping with a man, or were worried about what your parents were going to say.. You don't even know me... And this is much different from calling someone say a communist, or maybe a war monger.. Which we're all guilty of at one time or another..

Bubba was right, I was extrapolating from what Toni Morrison said.. I didn't have a transcript of what she said, it was something I heard on the radio... And I heard there was more.. What she's saying is that he has this bond with the black man, he was a Cheat, he was a philanderer, and because the law is always after him, and therefore there is this bond like I was stating.... This erudite Black American woman.. herself.

AND Anyone that by stating he was the greatest president is wholly acknowledging that they are willing to be lied to about everything by their president.. I don't care who they are.. Black.. White.. Asian.. Democrat.. Republican.. (Stefanopalis I include in this as well) And yes Poor saps they are.. And they should be prayed for..

But your bomb has been dropped, It's a little too late, lecturing me on being a racist, and including the words 'I'm sorry, I don't want to start a fight', in the same sentence, What kind of logic are you trying to pull over my head? I'm sorry for you, truly.

L.Unplugged

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Please, let's not allow this discussion to escalate into anything uncivilized.

Thanks.

 

[sulawesigirl4]

this thread is still going?

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Lemonite,
I don't want to start a fight and I apologise for interpreting your post wrongly.

However, I still don't see how you interpret Toni Morrison's comments as describing Clinton as a "cheat" "philanderer" and "running from the law". I would interpret the quote as saying Clinton was "the focus of persecution" and drawing a parellel between this and the persecution Black people face, notably from the police. Of course you can debate whether it's in any way an accurate comparison, but that's what I'd interpret it as. I certainly wouldn't see it as describing Clinton as basically a criminal, and then claiming Black people can relate to him because he's a criminal!

And I really do apologise for misinterpreting your words. I know I'd be angry if I were accused of being something I'm not, so I'm sorry that I did that to you. And I hope we can get this back to a civilised discussion now

*Fizz

 

[LOVE MUSCLE]

Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
this thread is still going?

Yes it is

 

[Lemonite]

Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees:
Lemonite,
I don't want to start a fight and I apologise for interpreting your post wrongly.

*Fizz

Apology accepted, however, I would have been more immediately inclined to do so had you left out the smiley face at the end of the post.. But seriously, it's just a difference of opinions... I'll just leave it at that for now at least.

Anyways, Bubba, you are a healer of sorts.. Maybe you can teach me the good ol' Dhalsim Yoga Transport.

L.Unplugged

 

[Salome]

Originally posted by Lemonite:
Anyways, Bubba, you are a healer of sorts..

yes and I'm a liberal who only cracks down on conservatives

------------------
Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
I may be wrong, but I *believe* that Lemonite was merely quoting Morrison, a black author.

I believe this is what Toni Morrison actually said about Clinton being the first black president:

Years ago, in the middle of the Whitewater investigation, one heard the first murmurs: white skin notwithstanding, this is our first black president. Blacker than any actual black person who could ever be elected in our children's lifetime. After all, Clinton displays almost every trope of blackness: single-parent household, born poor, working-class, saxophone-playing, McDonald's-and-junk-food-loving boy from Arkansas. And when virtually all the African-American Clinton appointees began, one by one, to disappear, when the president's body, his privacy, his unpoliced sexuality became the focus of the persecution, when he was metaphorically seized and body-searched, who could gainsay these black men who knew whereof they spoke?

I don't see any mention of lying, cheating or running from the law there.

And it was this part of Lemonite's post which I found offensive:

Just like Black men.. Or so she says.. Hahahahaa.. poor saps.. I think we need to send our prayers out to them Diamond.. Maybe include them in our latest Rosary.

Although maybe I should wait for Lemonite to clarify what s/he actually meant by that statement, rather than speculating.

[This message has been edited by FizzingWhizzbees (edited 02-20-2002).]

 

[Lemonite]

Originally posted by Salome:

Originally posted by Lemonite:
Anyways, Bubba, you are a healer of sorts..

yes and I'm a liberal who only cracks down on conservatives

Uhhh.. Whatever you wish man.. I keep probing ya to see if you'll laugh one of these days.

Must be Mod Envy.

L.Unplugged

 

[z edge]

Originally posted by Lemonite:
Uhhh.. Whatever you wish man.. I keep probing ya to see if you'll laugh one of these days.

Must be Mod Envy.

L.Unplugged

be very afraid

 

[Salome]

I laugh 80% of the time

------------------
Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it

 

[Lemonite]

Originally posted by Salome:
I laugh 80% of the time

Haha.. Well said, however I'd see if I could push it up to the more rounded number of 81%.. it just carries that extra umpfh.. just kidding.

L.Unplugged

 

[z edge]

Was I imagining things, or did I hear that George W. Bush and Tony Blair were just nominated fot the Nobel Peace Prize?