Mr. Bush - Missing in Action? - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-08-2004, 05:10 AM   #1
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 06:37 PM
Mr. Bush - Missing in Action?

Quote:
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF NYTimes

President Bush claims that in the fall of 1972, he fulfilled his Air National Guard duties at a base in Alabama. But Bob Mintz was there - and he is sure Mr. Bush wasn't.

Plenty of other officers have said they also don't recall that Mr. Bush ever showed up for drills at the base. What's different about Mr. Mintz is that he remembers actively looking for Mr. Bush and never finding him.

Mr. Mintz says he had heard that Mr. Bush - described as a young Texas pilot with political influence - had transferred to the base. He heard that Mr. Bush was also a bachelor, so he was looking forward to partying together. He's confident that he'd remember if Mr. Bush had shown up.

"I'm sure I would have seen him," Mr. Mintz said yesterday. "It's a small unit, and you couldn't go in or out without being seen. It was too close a space." There were only 25 to 30 pilots there, and Mr. Bush - a U.N. ambassador's son who had dated Tricia Nixon - would have been particularly memorable.

I've steered clear until now of how Mr. Bush evaded service in Vietnam because I thought other issues were more important. But if Bush supporters attack John Kerry for his conduct after he volunteered for dangerous duty in Vietnam, it's only fair to scrutinize Mr. Bush's behavior.

It's not a pretty sight. Mr. Bush was saved from active duty, and perhaps Vietnam, only after the speaker of the Texas House intervened for him because of his family's influence.

Mr. Bush signed up in May 1968 for a six-year commitment, justifying the $1 million investment in training him as a pilot. But after less than two years, Mr. Bush abruptly stopped flying, didn't show up for his physical and asked to transfer to Alabama. He never again flew a military plane.

Mr. Bush insists that after moving to Alabama in 1972, he served out his obligation at Dannelly Air National Guard Base in Montgomery (although he says he doesn't remember what he did there). The only officer there who recalls Mr. Bush was produced by the White House - he remembers Mr. Bush vividly, but at times when even Mr. Bush acknowledges he wasn't there.

In contrast, Mr. Mintz is a compelling witness. Describing himself as "a very strong military man," he served in the military from 1959 to 1984. A commercial pilot, he is now a Democrat but was a Republican for most of his life, and he is not a Bush-hater. When I asked him whether the National Guard controversy raises questions about Mr. Bush's credibility, Mr. Mintz said only, "That's up to the American people to decide."

In his first interview with a national news organization, Mr. Mintz recalled why he remembered Mr. Bush as a no-show: "Young bachelors were kind of sparse. For that reason, I was looking for someone to haul around with." Why speak out now? He said, "After a lot of soul-searching, I just feel it's my duty to stand up and do the right thing."

Another particularly credible witness is Leonard Walls, a retired Air Force colonel who was then a full-time pilot instructor at the base. "I was there pretty much every day," he said, adding: "I never saw him, and I was there continually from July 1972 to July 1974." Mr. Walls, who describes himself as nonpolitical, added, "If he had been there more than once, I would have seen him."

The sheer volume of missing documents, and missing recollections, strongly suggests to me that Mr. Bush blew off his Guard obligations. It's not fair to say Mr. Bush deserted. My sense is that he (like some others at the time) neglected his National Guard obligations, did the bare minimum to avoid serious trouble and was finally let off by commanders who considered him a headache but felt it wasn't worth the hassle to punish him.

"The record clearly and convincingly proves he did not fulfill the obligations he incurred when he enlisted in the Air National Guard," writes Gerald Lechliter, a retired Army colonel who has made the most meticulous examination I've seen of Mr. Bush's records (I've posted the full 32-page analysis here). Mr. Lechliter adds that Mr. Bush received unauthorized or fraudulent payments that breached National Guard rules, according to the documents that the White House itself released.

Does this disqualify Mr. Bush from being commander in chief? No. But it should disqualify the Bush campaign from sliming the military service of a rival who still carries shrapnel from Vietnam in his thigh.

E-mail: nicholas@nytimes.com
Links:
full 32-page analysis:
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/.../lechliter.pdf
__________________

__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 09-08-2004, 05:36 AM   #2
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 03:37 AM
Been there, done that .
__________________

__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 09-08-2004, 05:56 AM   #3
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 12:37 PM
"Does this disqualify Mr. Bush from being commander in chief? No. But it should disqualify the Bush campaign from sliming the military service of a rival who still carries shrapnel from Vietnam in his thigh."
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 09-08-2004, 06:04 AM   #4
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 05:37 PM
The Democrats have been attacking Bush on this since the 2000 election. They still can't prove their case and the American people have already shown they either don't care about or find the democrats slime tactics to be BS.

When an incumbent runs for re-election, whether or not to re-elect him begins and ends with what he did the past four years while he had the office. Everything prior to him being President is irrelevant and that is how the general non-democrat public looks at it.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 09-08-2004, 06:19 AM   #5
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,645
Local Time: 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Everything prior to him being President is irrelevant and that is how the general non-democrat public looks at it.
That's a sad and disturbing opinion, but it's funny that it doesn't apply to Democratic presidents and alleged affairs he had prior to his running for presidency.
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 09-08-2004, 06:51 AM   #6
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 12:37 PM

There's also a book out by Kitty Kelley that claims he did cocaine at Camp David while his father was President

I'm sure now they'll be bringing up Kerry's drug use-I think he has admitted to marijuana only, but I could be wrong about that of course.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 09-08-2004, 07:18 AM   #7
New Yorker
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,637
Local Time: 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
The Democrats have been attacking Bush on this since the 2000 election. They still can't prove their case and the American people have already shown they either don't care about or find the democrats slime tactics to be BS.
They still haven't been able to prove that he was there because he wasn't. There is no documentation that he ever showed up and all he has to do is release his records and he won't.

Slime tactics by the Democrats? what about those stupid Swift Boat ads? Bush never came out to flat out condemn those specific ads. He should have.
__________________
sharky is offline  
Old 09-08-2004, 07:18 AM   #8
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 06:37 PM
STING2

It would be great if you could read the linked 32pages pdf and comment it since you have an oustanding knowledge of US military bureaucracy and habits.

I think this Colonel brings up some serious points

Gerald A. Lechliter
retired (1999) Army colonel with
active Marine enlisted service (1967-69).

Quote:
The nature of his service is an
important issue in this 2004 presidential election because it
received scant coverage in 2000 and because it strikes at the heart
of Bush's credibility.

In 2000, Bush ran on bringing back "dignity and honor to the
White House (WH)" and being a "compassionate conservative." Since
9-11, he has wrapped himself in the flag to push forward a domestic
agenda that is anything but compassionate and well to the right of
center; embarked on a perilous new national security strategy of
"preemptive war" and invaded Iraq; and even has used the uniform to.garner political support, the first for a President in my lifetime,
although there have been others who had more illustrious military
service. Bush himself brought on the renewed scrutiny of his
military record by stressing his role as Commander-in-Chief of the
U.S. armed forces, declaring himself a "wartime president," and
using the word "war" more than 30 times in the course of an
interview on "Meet the Press" that lasted less than an hour.
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 09-08-2004, 07:22 AM   #9
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 56,337
Local Time: 12:37 PM
i've said it before i'll say it again...

if john kerry didn't want his service in vietnam to be an issue in this election, he never would have brought it up in the first place. the second he brings it up, it becomes open for debate... especially with that little fact that a huge number of vets feel that kerry stabbed them in the back upon returning to the states.
__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is online now  
Old 09-08-2004, 10:06 AM   #10
War Child
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 760
Local Time: 05:37 PM
The veep was worse than the prez, as we know. At least the W. was close to military/air force hardware (and got to wear a uniform).

RS chronicles Dick's history this month:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...region=single7
__________________
Judah is offline  
Old 09-08-2004, 10:21 AM   #11
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 09:37 AM
So now the recollection of one individual who doesn't remember seeing Bush is a source of news.......

Or should we wait for the book from the NGAVFT (national guard airmen veterans for truth)......
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 09-08-2004, 10:25 AM   #12
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 06:37 PM
nbcrusader

no he's not the source, he just verifies what the facts suggest.
if you have the time read the 32 pages.
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 09-08-2004, 11:09 AM   #13
War Child
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 760
Local Time: 05:37 PM
Who wants to bet this topic will not surface in the debates?

Both sides will let the slime-fest continue from arms length.
__________________
Judah is offline  
Old 09-08-2004, 01:36 PM   #14
War Child
 
MaxFisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 776
Local Time: 05:37 PM
Kerry has made his Vietnam service a major point of his campaign and therefore his actual service records should be scrutinized.
__________________
MaxFisher is offline  
Old 09-08-2004, 02:19 PM   #15
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
DrTeeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Q continuum
Posts: 4,770
Local Time: 06:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Judah
Who wants to bet this topic will not surface in the debates?

Both sides will let the slime-fest continue from arms length.
I hope it won't turn up in the debates because I'm bored stiff with it already. And I hope no more People for Truth show up, we already know they are all affiliated with either the Republican or Democratic party anyway.
__________________

__________________
DrTeeth is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com