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Old 09-10-2004, 08:55 AM   #46
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Serving in Vietnam was NOT AN ISSUE when Clinton was running for office.

There are unanswered questions whether Kerry HONORABLY served his country.

Now, when Kerry is DOWN IN THE POLLS a leading Kerry CONTRIBUTOR goes on television to smear Bush. And may have done so with FORGED DOCUMENTS.

The Kerry camp has shown LITTLE to suggest that he is a LEADER.

Sorry, but IGNORANCE offends
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Old 09-10-2004, 09:16 AM   #47
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SO jamila, the actions of over 35 years ago should forever stain someone's record? Bush himself has said that Kerry served honorably and much more heroically than he himself did. He also admits that he is not the same person as he was back then. I doubt most of the people in here were jumping all over Pres. Clinton for his actions in Vietnam like they are with Bush. I really do not care what CLinton, Bush, etc did in Vietnam. That was a long time ago. If this is still relevant then so should Robert Byrd's membership in the KKK.
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Old 09-10-2004, 09:34 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jamila

WHERE WAS GEORGE BUSH during this time?
smokin' the ganga with bubba clinton and hill hill perhaps.

most don't question the 4 months who served in vietnam. some do, but most don't. bush has said many times that he can't compare his national guard service with kerry's time in 'nam.

but ya see... a lot of people, former vets and all, do have a teeny weeny problem with john kerry's testimony given to the senate upon his return to the states. words that kerry himself said were "honest, but on the other hand they were a little bit over the top." words that the north vietnamese used while torturing POWs.

damn them for feeling that... they should just get over it, after all it was 30+ years ago[/sarcasm]
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Old 09-10-2004, 09:44 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ft. Worth Frog
SO jamila, the actions of over 35 years ago should forever stain someone's record?
no

since 60% of this campaign so far seems to focus on Kerry's Vietnam past it's hardly surprising though
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Old 09-10-2004, 11:05 AM   #50
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
How long until we see them say, "it doesn't matter if it was a lie, because it represents part of a bigger and more important truth"
Was it a lie or did he "misspeak?" If a Republican had done something like this I know that many of you would have said that he misspoke, since he did become lieutenant governor a year later. At the time he says he pulled strings for W, Barnes was speaker of the Texas House of Representatives.

I mean, it's not like he claimed to serve in the Air Force when he didn't serve in it at all, like some people.

If you're really going to parse Barnes' statement so thoroughly I would expect you to dismiss the Swift Boat Vets claims completely since they have been caught in far more glaring and consequential "misstatements."
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Old 09-10-2004, 11:19 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
no

since 60% of this campaign so far seems to focus on Kerry's Vietnam past it's hardly surprising though
Kerry did make his Vietnam service a main point of his campaign. He is just unhappy that it is not a "one-way conversation with the public".
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Old 09-10-2004, 01:30 PM   #52
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More Signs of Desperation?

Daughter of Ben Barnes Disputes Father's Claims as Political

Quote:
BARNES: I love my father very much, but he's doing this for purely political reasons. He is a big Kerry fund-raiser and he is writing a book also. And [the Bush story] is what he's leading the book off with. ... He denied this to me in 2000 that he did get Bush out [of Vietnam service]. Now he's saying he did.
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Old 09-10-2004, 01:34 PM   #53
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true

but since Kerry going to Vietnam and the way he voiced his opinion (I don't agree with the way he voiced this, but I can't say I live under the notion that Kerry is the only one who made these kidn of claims) seems to be such a key issue on who should become president of the USA then it's not surprising that it's also an issue that Bush - commander in chief and all - used his family contacts to stay as far away from Vietnam as he possibly could (I would have done the same if I would have had his contacts btw so I don't even blame him for that)
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Old 09-10-2004, 02:17 PM   #54
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Barnes has been telling the same story since at least 1999.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/US_electio...202917,00.html

And when he told the story then he was forced to.

Compare that to the Swift Boat Vets.
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Old 09-10-2004, 02:43 PM   #55
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I'm may be parsing and I may not. I gave information that, if probably done/ said by Bush and co. would be jumped on. Do I believe every swift boat claim... no... I do believe there are probably some questionable circumstances about Kerry, but IMO he probably earned the majority of medals which is good enough for me. Kerry opened up this whole swift boat controversy by making his campaign based on Vietnam heroism (during the convention and his speeches). His post-Vietnam statements in the 70s (which to me were pretty bad of course I have an underlying philosophy that draws me to that conclusion) did not help his current situation, either.

With that said, the Barnes statement is public record, and as nit-picky as it is, it raises eyebrows. I mean how much power does Barnes have as a congressman to get Bush into the National Guard?

Also, the Bush National Guard issues have been around ever since he first ran for governor and probably when he ran for other positions. I don't see them being a big deal now b/c Bush is already President and they never affected by much his previous elections. Barnes, has only made it an issue now for some reason and it doesn't help that he's as partisan as they come. Making a contradictory statement on a national news broadcast is pretty bad IMO, especially if its to smear a person's reputation. Also, ESPECIALLY if he's contradicted himself several times before in other instances (and supposedly he has).

I think this issue of Bush's Guard experience is lame. It tends to belittle the National Guard and Democrats' attacks come off as hypocritcal for the Kerry campaign considering Clinton was a draft dodger and Kerry himself said Clinton's draft-dodging shouldn't disallow Bubba from being President.
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Old 09-10-2004, 03:02 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by ThatGuy
Barnes has been telling the same story since at least 1999.
So, he is flip flopping like Kerry


And he has the political motivation (check out Kerry's list of fundraisers, unlike the SBVT.
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Old 09-10-2004, 09:04 PM   #57
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The problem with Bush supporters is that they have little to say to defend their candidate, so they attack Kerry for things that Bush himself is guilty of. If the American public was educated enough to make an informed choice, this election would be a blowout for Kerry because no one in their right mind would vote for W. The President makes Kerry look like an absolute saint.

AJ
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Old 09-11-2004, 08:37 AM   #58
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Originally posted by Hawk269
The problem with Bush supporters is that they have little to say to defend their candidate, so they attack Kerry for things that Bush himself is guilty of. If the American public was educated enough to make an informed choice, this election would be a blowout for Kerry because no one in their right mind would vote for W. The President makes Kerry look like an absolute saint.
Oh, stop. Kerry has yet to define himself because all he can say is "I can do it better than Bush".

Arrogance is rampant when you suggest that the educated voter supports Kerry.
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Old 09-11-2004, 11:11 AM   #59
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Yes they do unless they are an Evangelical, wealthy, or corporate heads.

I'm sick of this crap. Bush is a total failure as a President.
So in light of his intellectual capability and in the tradition of Cheney - Fuck Bush.
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Old 09-11-2004, 11:19 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scarletwine
I'm sick of this crap. Bush is a total failure as a President.
So in light of his intellectual capability and in the tradition of Cheney - Fuck Bush.
The hyperbole is hilarious.....
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