sharky
New Yorker
sorry Dread, I was going a little nutty last night. I just felt both sides should be covered.
Moveon.org Features Ad Comparing Bush to Hitler
- Thread starter Dreadsox
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Scarletwine
New Yorker
I think they allowed the ads as an honest representation of some people's thinking. NOTICE the mods had to create a warning for posters in FYM to not use Nazi comparisons.
While I don't think Bush is comarable to Hitler, the recent steps our gov't has taken against our civil rights do seem to be a move towards a more facist state and that should be represented on these ads.
While I don't think Bush is comarable to Hitler, the recent steps our gov't has taken against our civil rights do seem to be a move towards a more facist state and that should be represented on these ads.
Rono
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
Did he realy say that ? Is he a fan of Goebels ?melon said:
U2LipstickBoy
The Fly
MoveOn is funded by Hollywood Left
This is great to see, it shows what MoveOn, the radical left, and the Hollywood liberals are up to.
By MoveOn.org comparing George Bush to Hitler, it just shows how out of touch with reality the radical neo-liberals and Hollywood left have become. Hitler was for gun control, Bush is AGAINST gun control. Hitler only wanted one race to span Europe, Bush is making it so Mexicans can safely enter America and work, Bush wants all races in America. Hitler went on the offense to remove people's human rights, while Bush went over to Iraq to eliminate Saddam, Saddam being the one who was violating human rights and killing tens of thousands.
George Bush is the exact opposite of Hitler.
Like always, MoveOn runs their mouth about some Patriot Act, about civil liberties being taken away, but MoveOn is still unable to give us the names of just 3 people that were born in America that have now lost their civil liberties. I walk around society everyday, and I have yet to see any civil liberty taken away.
This is great to see, it shows what MoveOn, the radical left, and the Hollywood liberals are up to.
By MoveOn.org comparing George Bush to Hitler, it just shows how out of touch with reality the radical neo-liberals and Hollywood left have become. Hitler was for gun control, Bush is AGAINST gun control. Hitler only wanted one race to span Europe, Bush is making it so Mexicans can safely enter America and work, Bush wants all races in America. Hitler went on the offense to remove people's human rights, while Bush went over to Iraq to eliminate Saddam, Saddam being the one who was violating human rights and killing tens of thousands.
George Bush is the exact opposite of Hitler.
Like always, MoveOn runs their mouth about some Patriot Act, about civil liberties being taken away, but MoveOn is still unable to give us the names of just 3 people that were born in America that have now lost their civil liberties. I walk around society everyday, and I have yet to see any civil liberty taken away.
Klaus
Refugee
Hello,
Everybody here knows that i'm not a member of the "Pro Bush Fraction" of FYM.
But i have to say that it's complete nonsense to compare Bush to Hitler, historical comparisions fail most of the time, like here.
Bush is neither like Hitler nor is he the exact oposite.
So any comparison like that not only falls short but seems like spiting in the face of the victims of Mr. Hitler.
So i think all of us here agree that this ad was more then tasteless.
But the left is not the only one with tasteless comparisions, seems like on both sides there are people who are willing to do everything to hurt the other side. Luckily not here on FYM
Klaus
Everybody here knows that i'm not a member of the "Pro Bush Fraction" of FYM.
But i have to say that it's complete nonsense to compare Bush to Hitler, historical comparisions fail most of the time, like here.
Bush is neither like Hitler nor is he the exact oposite.
So any comparison like that not only falls short but seems like spiting in the face of the victims of Mr. Hitler.
So i think all of us here agree that this ad was more then tasteless.
But the left is not the only one with tasteless comparisions, seems like on both sides there are people who are willing to do everything to hurt the other side. Luckily not here on FYM
Klaus
A_Wanderer
ONE love, blood, life
The slippery slop of moral relativism strikes again!, hey 1st post 
Scarletwine
New Yorker
Ahhhh a article 
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2004/01/26/hsorensen.DTL
Are Parallels To Nazi Germany Crazy?
VIEW FROM THE LEFT
Harley Sorensen, Special to SF Gate Monday, January 26, 2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The customers always write. I get about 400 e-mails in response to my columns every week, which might explain why I didn't answer yours. Here, slightly edited, is one of the more interesting ones from last week. It's from Herr Moellers in Germany:
"Dear Mr. Sorensen,
"I have many American friends and used to go on business travel to the U.S. a lot (I stopped doing that after even our European governments have given in to Uncle Sam's appetite for information about individuals traveling to God's Own Country), and I am shocked by the deterioration of democracy in a country that I used to love. This administration is a shame and the destabilization they have brought to the world is scaring the s** out of me.
"My father was a Nazi soldier and he realized during the war what he and most of his generation was led into. I have learned from him that a nation can be guilty and that we must stop the arrogance of the powers at the very beginning. To me, America is becoming truly scary and the parallels to the development in Germany of the thirties (although the reason behind it are totally different) are sickening.
"Thank you for writing about this development. The world is waiting for signs of opposition in the Unilateral States of America!"
Herr Moellers' e-mail is typical of a half dozen or so I've received over the past year from people with intimate knowledge of Nazi Germany.
I respect experience, so I'm inclined to believe what these people are telling me. Perhaps their memories help explain the attitude of Germans toward the Bush administration these days.
They've been there, they've done that. They know what a corrupt government smells like.
But are they "over the top"? Are they overreacting to a normal swing of the pendulum in American politics?
To make a comparison between Germany in the 1930s and America now, I relied on a Web site called "A Teacher's Guide to the Holocaust." The passages in quotations below are taken from the site.
"With Adolf Hitler's ascendancy to the chancellorship, the Nazi Party quickly consolidated its power. Hitler managed to maintain a posture of legality throughout the Nazification process."
Whether by chance or design, George W. Bush is the most powerful American president in modern history. Not only does he have both houses of Congress beholden to him, but the majority of the Supreme Court is acting like a quintet of Bush lapdogs. And it all appears legal.
"Domestically, during the next six years, Hitler completely transformed Germany into a police state."
Civil libertarians insist that this is happening here now, with the USA Patriot Act in force and Patriot II on the table.
"Hitler engaged in a 'diplomatic revolution' by negotiating with other European countries and publicly expressing his strong desire for peace."
Nobody can accuse Bush of being overly diplomatic, but, like all political leaders, he is an apostle for peace, even while starting two wars during his brief tenure.
In 1933, the Reichstag, Germany's parliament building, was burned to the ground. Nobody knows for sure who set the fire. The Nazis blamed communists. "This incident prompted Hitler[,then Germany's chancellor,] to convince [German President Paul von] Hindenburg to issue a Decree for the Protection of People and State that granted Nazis sweeping power to deal with the so-called emergency."
The Reichstag fire parallels the Sept. 11 attacks here, and Hindenburg's decree parallels our USA Patriot Act.
Soon after Hitler took power, the concentration camp at Dachau was created and "the Nazis began arresting Communists, Socialists and labor leaders ... . Parliamentary democracy ended with the Reichstag passage of the Enabling Act, which allowed the government to issue laws without the Reichstag."
With Bush leading all branches of government around by the nose, there's a question whether parliamentary democracy still exists here. Certainly, concentration camps exist, if we're willing to call the lockup at Guant?namo Bay what it really is. And the USA Patriot Act allows the president to effectively take citizenship rights from any American-born criminal suspect.
"Nazi anti-Semitic legislation and propaganda against 'Non-Aryans' was a thinly disguised attack against anyone who had Jewish parents or grandparents. Jews felt increasingly isolated from the rest of German society."
How comfortable do American-born Arabs feel in the United States today?
While the German concentration camps were being built and Jews were being persecuted, in 1936 Nazi Germany hosted the Olympic Games and put its best face forward to the world. We have the Super Bowl.
In the mid- to late 1930s, Germany was able to annex nearby territories without firing a shot. That was because of the threat of the German military, the strongest in the world at the time. That might be compared with the sudden flexibility of Iran, Pakistan, Syria and Libya, all of whom are aware that Bush will do more than just threaten; he'll do it.
When one is comparing then and now, I think the most interesting factor is that most German Jews remained in Germany until it was too late. They just couldn't believe Hitler was as dangerous as some people said he was. The more prescient Jews (most often those who could afford to do so) got out, however.
Hitler came to power in 1933, but the killing of Jews (and others) didn't begin until five years later, in 1938, with the historic Kristallnacht ("Night of Broken Glass") on Nov. 9. On that day, "nearly 1,000 synagogues were set on fire and 76 were destroyed. More than 7,000 Jewish businesses and homes were looted, about 100 Jews were killed, and as many as 30,000 Jews were arrested and sent to concentration camps to be tormented ... ."
We haven't seen anything like that here, nor does it appear to be one the horizon, yet one must wonder about the hundreds shut away in Guant?namo Bay and in other lockups in the United States and throughout the world.
I haven't space here to list all of the apparent comparisons between then and now, but you can see them for yourself by reading the teacher's guide mentioned earlier.
My conclusion is that some comparisons between modern times and Nazi Germany are valid, and some are not. Enough are valid, in my opinion, however, for us to be wary, and as vigilant as humanly possible.
Whatever happens in this year's election, I would hope that Congress, the Supreme Court and the president himself start reeling in the power of the presidency. It has been expanding ever since Franklin D. Roosevelt, if not before, and now it is way out of proportion to what the Founding Fathers had in mind for our system of checks and balances.
Our current president has the power to turn the world into turmoil with a mere stroke of the pen. No man should have that much power, no matter who he is.
Harley Sorensen is a longtime journalist. His column appears Mondays. E-mail him at harleysorensen@yahoo.com
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2004/01/26/hsorensen.DTL
Are Parallels To Nazi Germany Crazy?
VIEW FROM THE LEFT
Harley Sorensen, Special to SF Gate Monday, January 26, 2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The customers always write. I get about 400 e-mails in response to my columns every week, which might explain why I didn't answer yours. Here, slightly edited, is one of the more interesting ones from last week. It's from Herr Moellers in Germany:
"Dear Mr. Sorensen,
"I have many American friends and used to go on business travel to the U.S. a lot (I stopped doing that after even our European governments have given in to Uncle Sam's appetite for information about individuals traveling to God's Own Country), and I am shocked by the deterioration of democracy in a country that I used to love. This administration is a shame and the destabilization they have brought to the world is scaring the s** out of me.
"My father was a Nazi soldier and he realized during the war what he and most of his generation was led into. I have learned from him that a nation can be guilty and that we must stop the arrogance of the powers at the very beginning. To me, America is becoming truly scary and the parallels to the development in Germany of the thirties (although the reason behind it are totally different) are sickening.
"Thank you for writing about this development. The world is waiting for signs of opposition in the Unilateral States of America!"
Herr Moellers' e-mail is typical of a half dozen or so I've received over the past year from people with intimate knowledge of Nazi Germany.
I respect experience, so I'm inclined to believe what these people are telling me. Perhaps their memories help explain the attitude of Germans toward the Bush administration these days.
They've been there, they've done that. They know what a corrupt government smells like.
But are they "over the top"? Are they overreacting to a normal swing of the pendulum in American politics?
To make a comparison between Germany in the 1930s and America now, I relied on a Web site called "A Teacher's Guide to the Holocaust." The passages in quotations below are taken from the site.
"With Adolf Hitler's ascendancy to the chancellorship, the Nazi Party quickly consolidated its power. Hitler managed to maintain a posture of legality throughout the Nazification process."
Whether by chance or design, George W. Bush is the most powerful American president in modern history. Not only does he have both houses of Congress beholden to him, but the majority of the Supreme Court is acting like a quintet of Bush lapdogs. And it all appears legal.
"Domestically, during the next six years, Hitler completely transformed Germany into a police state."
Civil libertarians insist that this is happening here now, with the USA Patriot Act in force and Patriot II on the table.
"Hitler engaged in a 'diplomatic revolution' by negotiating with other European countries and publicly expressing his strong desire for peace."
Nobody can accuse Bush of being overly diplomatic, but, like all political leaders, he is an apostle for peace, even while starting two wars during his brief tenure.
In 1933, the Reichstag, Germany's parliament building, was burned to the ground. Nobody knows for sure who set the fire. The Nazis blamed communists. "This incident prompted Hitler[,then Germany's chancellor,] to convince [German President Paul von] Hindenburg to issue a Decree for the Protection of People and State that granted Nazis sweeping power to deal with the so-called emergency."
The Reichstag fire parallels the Sept. 11 attacks here, and Hindenburg's decree parallels our USA Patriot Act.
Soon after Hitler took power, the concentration camp at Dachau was created and "the Nazis began arresting Communists, Socialists and labor leaders ... . Parliamentary democracy ended with the Reichstag passage of the Enabling Act, which allowed the government to issue laws without the Reichstag."
With Bush leading all branches of government around by the nose, there's a question whether parliamentary democracy still exists here. Certainly, concentration camps exist, if we're willing to call the lockup at Guant?namo Bay what it really is. And the USA Patriot Act allows the president to effectively take citizenship rights from any American-born criminal suspect.
"Nazi anti-Semitic legislation and propaganda against 'Non-Aryans' was a thinly disguised attack against anyone who had Jewish parents or grandparents. Jews felt increasingly isolated from the rest of German society."
How comfortable do American-born Arabs feel in the United States today?
While the German concentration camps were being built and Jews were being persecuted, in 1936 Nazi Germany hosted the Olympic Games and put its best face forward to the world. We have the Super Bowl.
In the mid- to late 1930s, Germany was able to annex nearby territories without firing a shot. That was because of the threat of the German military, the strongest in the world at the time. That might be compared with the sudden flexibility of Iran, Pakistan, Syria and Libya, all of whom are aware that Bush will do more than just threaten; he'll do it.
When one is comparing then and now, I think the most interesting factor is that most German Jews remained in Germany until it was too late. They just couldn't believe Hitler was as dangerous as some people said he was. The more prescient Jews (most often those who could afford to do so) got out, however.
Hitler came to power in 1933, but the killing of Jews (and others) didn't begin until five years later, in 1938, with the historic Kristallnacht ("Night of Broken Glass") on Nov. 9. On that day, "nearly 1,000 synagogues were set on fire and 76 were destroyed. More than 7,000 Jewish businesses and homes were looted, about 100 Jews were killed, and as many as 30,000 Jews were arrested and sent to concentration camps to be tormented ... ."
We haven't seen anything like that here, nor does it appear to be one the horizon, yet one must wonder about the hundreds shut away in Guant?namo Bay and in other lockups in the United States and throughout the world.
I haven't space here to list all of the apparent comparisons between then and now, but you can see them for yourself by reading the teacher's guide mentioned earlier.
My conclusion is that some comparisons between modern times and Nazi Germany are valid, and some are not. Enough are valid, in my opinion, however, for us to be wary, and as vigilant as humanly possible.
Whatever happens in this year's election, I would hope that Congress, the Supreme Court and the president himself start reeling in the power of the presidency. It has been expanding ever since Franklin D. Roosevelt, if not before, and now it is way out of proportion to what the Founding Fathers had in mind for our system of checks and balances.
Our current president has the power to turn the world into turmoil with a mere stroke of the pen. No man should have that much power, no matter who he is.
Harley Sorensen is a longtime journalist. His column appears Mondays. E-mail him at harleysorensen@yahoo.com
Tell you what....
If Bush wins in this year....and serves his term.....and is some how still President after term two.....I will begin to worry.
Until then....we have a constitution....amd a vote....and representatives. Make them do their frigginf jobs if you are not happy with the situation. I am so sick of this crap.
If Bush wins in this year....and serves his term.....and is some how still President after term two.....I will begin to worry.
Until then....we have a constitution....amd a vote....and representatives. Make them do their frigginf jobs if you are not happy with the situation. I am so sick of this crap.
Scarletwine
New Yorker
"Until then....we have a constitution....and a vote....and representatives. Make them do their frigging jobs if you are not happy with the situation. I am so sick of this crap."
Why? They used circumstances to play the game. I'm sick to death of many things. WMD's , UN resolution,s and Israel activities cause they aren't category F. (F that, I'm not sure but Sting will know)
It's time to think about Global survival, the environment as the the most important issue along with bringing the US into the nations of health care.
So, sorry I'm freakin worried and am allowed to express my opinion, at least for now.
I was watching CSPAN the other day and heard a lady calling in. She like me was a concerned citizen, but not an activist. The extremest admin. changed both her and I from passive to activist.
So Dubyah is the most dangerous President in my history and hopefully his lies are helping to deconstruct him
Why? They used circumstances to play the game. I'm sick to death of many things. WMD's , UN resolution,s and Israel activities cause they aren't category F. (F that, I'm not sure but Sting will know)
It's time to think about Global survival, the environment as the the most important issue along with bringing the US into the nations of health care.
So, sorry I'm freakin worried and am allowed to express my opinion, at least for now.
I was watching CSPAN the other day and heard a lady calling in. She like me was a concerned citizen, but not an activist. The extremest admin. changed both her and I from passive to activist.
So Dubyah is the most dangerous President in my history and hopefully his lies are helping to deconstruct him
Last edited:
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
3 Irishmen and a Dutchman Walk Into A Sphere - General Discussion Thread Part III
- Latest: Headache in a Suitcase
-
-
-
-
-