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Old 01-06-2004, 01:07 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
I am still looking for what is debateable about this...
No matter how much you hate Bush, how can he be seen as Hitler?
Anyway, I guess that doesn't matter in here when there is a party on the other side to start attacking. The only thing that changes in FYM is which party is getting the shit put on it.
Guess this is just the wrong party's thread.

Damn my bucket has a hole in it.
I haven't seen anyone debate the fact that he can be seen as Hitler.

I'll debate the blanket statement of the left embracing hate and the fact that the website should be held responsible and that's it.
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Old 01-06-2004, 04:57 PM   #47
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I think we're all in trouble if Bush wins in 2004

Quote:
Originally posted by STING2

Bush did not lie about anything, Saddam did.

US administration claimed Saddam had to do with 9/11 (which Bush himself later admitted was not true) and that he had ties with Al Qaida (which AFAIK is to this day not proven).

Their arguments for war in Iraq - the ones they officially went to war with and presented in UN - were untrue. NO WMD's were found, not even a fragment of all those rockets and tons of anthrax or massive amounts of various gases. The supposably "dangerous to US and the world" regime was dealt with in a matter of weeks. (Jessica Lynch "story" was also revealed for its true value)

They said they put a mighty blow to Al Qaida, yet last year we cleary saw a resurgence, which also goes against Bush's statement "the world is a safer place" after Iraq war.
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Old 01-06-2004, 05:06 PM   #48
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Let's try and stay on topic. We've already gone back and forth on all this. See WAR.
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Old 01-06-2004, 10:31 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I haven't seen anyone debate the fact that he can be seen as Hitler.

I'll debate the blanket statement of the left embracing hate and the fact that the website should be held responsible and that's it.
Yes, precisely. Somehow though all liberals are now all full of hate and must support this.
Point of my post was, this happens on each 'side'.
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Old 01-07-2004, 06:06 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Let's try and stay on topic. We've already gone back and forth on all this. See WAR.
Thank you for that patronising tone. I know what is discussed here and what is discussed in WAR, I was only replying to STING2's claim.
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Old 01-07-2004, 11:04 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2girl


Thank you for that patronising tone. I know what is discussed here and what is discussed in WAR, I was only replying to STING2's claim.
I didn't mean to be patronising. The comment wasn't just to you it was to all the individuals going off on the tangent. I'm just tired of threads being derailed, especially by the same debate. Sorry if it came off as an attack on you.
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Old 01-07-2004, 12:18 PM   #52
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Countdown with Keith Olbermann aired this clip last night on MSNBC.

I found it extremely upsetting. To hear the voice of evil incarnate ranting was frightening. I am so thankful I was not alive during those times.

I don't like Bush, but to compare him to Hitler is very, very wrong, in my eyes. And yes, people have the right to free speech, but I think this comparison only gives the right more ammo against the left, and can help turn centrists more towards the right, because they don't want to be associated with a mindset that would compare Bush to Hitler.

Just my .02.

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Old 01-07-2004, 07:23 PM   #53
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OK, before you all keep going off, I can tell that most of you have no idea what you're talking about in regards to this ad. I voted in this contest. There were 1,500 entries -- some were great and some sucked. These two ads were created by Americans who felt they should make a statement. In the end, the ads scored very low in the voting process because most people -- even liberals -- can see that these ads were over the top. The voting is over and there are now 15 finalists on the site that people can view. Some are good, some are bad. I suggest you watch Child's Play and Desktop -- two of my faves.

Dread -- I understand you are mad about this. I don't think it was right either. But the things you are quoting from are articles from the RNC's site -- and you're not even being honest about it by giving us a source link. Why not check out bushin30seconds.com? If you want to show one side of the issue, you should also show the other.


ADS ATTACKED BY RNC CHAIRMAN
ARE NOT MOVEON.ORG VOTER FUND ADS
MoveOn.org Voter Fund Regrets Screening Process Allowed Ads to Slip Through

Statement by Wes Boyd, Founder of MoveOn.org Voter Fund:

The Republican National Committee and its chairman have falsely accused MoveOn.org of sponsoring ads on its website which compare President Bush to Adolf Hitler. The claim is deliberately and maliciously misleading.

During December the MoveOn.org Voter Fund invited members of the public to submit ads that purported to tell the truth about the President and his policies. More than 1,500 submissions from ordinary Americans came in and were posted on a web site, bushin30seconds.org, for the public to review.

None of these was our ad, nor did their appearance constitute endorsement or sponsorship by MoveOn.org Voter Fund. They will not appear on TV. We do not support the sentiment expressed in the two Hitler submissions. They were voted down by our members and the public, who reviewed the ads and submitted nearly 3 million critiques in the process of choosing the 15 finalist entries.

We agree that the two ads in question were in poor taste and deeply regret that they slipped through our screening process. In the future, if we publish or broadcast raw material, we will create a more effective filtering system.

Contrast this with the behavior of the RNC and its allies when supporters of President Bush used TV ads morphing the face of Sen. Max Cleland (D-GA) into that of Osama Bin Laden during the 2002 Senate race.

MoveOn.org and the MoveOn.org Voter Fund exist to bring the public into the political process and produce a more fact-based election process. We regret that the RNC doesnt seem to embrace the same goals.

http://moveonvoterfund.org/smear/release.html
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Old 01-07-2004, 07:36 PM   #54
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Quote:
MoveOn.org and the MoveOn.org Voter Fund exist to bring the public into the political process and produce a more fact-based election process
they do comedy as well....
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Old 01-07-2004, 07:45 PM   #55
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hey, I didn't say MoveOn's statement was fact. Dread gave you the RNC's side, I gave you MoveOn's side. If you really are worried about a fact-based election process, don't base a whole thread on the words of the RNC.
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Old 01-07-2004, 09:14 PM   #56
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The talk I read was picked up by individuals who post on various and sundry liberal listservers. Unfortunately two of our local activists liked the ad and passed it off as a legit MoveOn ad. Well, it sort of was, it did "pass through the filter" as they said. Well, of course I was shocked and horrified. These activists rather frequently say things that piss me off, to put it mildly . I shouldn't have been such a damn sucker. I believed them. I don't know why. I've been a MoveOn reader for three years.
*Shoots self*
Damn.
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Old 01-07-2004, 09:59 PM   #57
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I refuse to read though all the bullshit. What a freaking crazy shit
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Old 01-07-2004, 10:19 PM   #58
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Ahhhh Screw it.........

Sharky....

If you feel I am not an honest poster...please PM me sometime

Just to clarify.....One thing.....

Anytime someone has asked me for a reference that I have forgotten to supply I have eagerly supplied it when they have asked. the only time I have not is when I was making a joke.

FYI...I cited not one single RNC site purposefully....
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Old 01-08-2004, 09:54 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Anyway, I guess that doesn't matter in here when there is a party on the other side to start attacking. The only thing that changes in FYM is which party is getting the shit put on it.
Guess this is just the wrong party's thread.

Damn my bucket has a hole in it.
Quote:
Originally posted by sharky
Statement by Wes Boyd, Founder of MoveOn.org Voter Fund:

.
.
.

Contrast this with the behavior of the RNC and its allies when supporters of President Bush used TV ads morphing the face of Sen. Max Cleland (D-GA) into that of Osama Bin Laden during the 2002 Senate race.
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Old 01-08-2004, 10:18 AM   #60
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Well, *someone* screwed up. The question now is "who"? The people who posted that stuff on the listserver claiming it was "a great ad" fd up big time. I'm still disoriented from my fender-bender (the car was totalled ) Whoever let that ad "through the filter" screwed up big time. I just hope no one does this sort of thing again. It's not right. No pun intended, but let's move on. We all agree that the ad was wrong and that's the important thing.
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