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Old 01-05-2004, 07:20 AM   #31
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I think what is sadder is that when the "left" digs up "dirt" that is even more offensive regarding the Republican Party, the "dirt" is all deemed as "conspiracy theories," but when the "right" digs up dirt on the "left," it is somehow the most morally abhorrent thing ever.

I think the fact that the Bush Administration openly lied about their case for war is far more morally abhorrent, but no one on the right seems to care. Even good old Paul Wolfowitz admits that the WMD excuse was a "compromise" excuse that "all parties could agree upon," when, in fact, Iraq just happens to be the perfect puzzle piece for the "New American Century." What they really have wanted is a permanent military base in Iraq to get us out of Saudi Arabia, because, underneath all the bombastic language towards Al-Qaeda, they're mindful of the fact that bin Laden started his war against us, because of our military presence in Saudi Arabia.

So you go ahead and worry about a leftist website that has no direct affiliation with the Democratic Party; they are about as connected to the Democrats as any other PAC is connected to the Republican Party. The rest of us will take a look at the (false) "morality" of our President. Actions surely speak louder than words.

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Old 01-05-2004, 09:38 AM   #32
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melon,

The fact that Saddam failed to comply with 17 UN resolutions passed under Chapter VII rules of the UN was not a lie nor was Saddam's violation of the 1991 Gulf War Ceacefire agreement. The Agreement and resolutions authorized member states to "use all means necessary" if Saddam failed to VERIFIABLY DISARM of all WMD!

Bush did not lie about anything, Saddam did. If the left wants a shot in 2004, its about time they recognized this.

If the website is connected to the democratic party in any way, they have something to worry about. If not, its just another website spewing worthless rubbish.
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Old 01-05-2004, 11:03 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
I think what is sadder is that when the "left" digs up "dirt" that is even more offensive regarding the Republican Party, the "dirt" is all deemed as "conspiracy theories," but when the "right" digs up dirt on the "left," it is somehow the most morally abhorrent thing ever.
To quote an esteemed member of this forum: Oh, boo hoo.
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Old 01-05-2004, 11:25 AM   #34
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I don't view this as a political thing in that people of all political persuasions feel like this is not the way to participate in political debate. I showed the thing to my mother. She is a fervent liberal, doesn't like Bush, likes Rumsfeld even less, etc, etc........and thinks the ad sucks.
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Old 01-05-2004, 11:38 AM   #35
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[Q]SECOND BUSH/HITLER AD APPEARS AT MOVEON.ORG
MON JAN 05 2004 10:27:51 ET

A SECOND ADVERT WHICH COMPARES PRESIDENT BUSH TO HITLER STREAMED ON MOVEON.ORG, THE DRUDGE REPORT HAS LEARNED. THE NEW HITLER SPOT FEATURED THE GRAPHIC 'SPONSORED BY MOVEON.ORG.'

[CLICK TO VIEW AD]

GRAPHIC: Nazi Flags In A Parade
GRAPHIC: Hitler
HITLER: (Speaking In German)
CHYRON: A NATION WARPED BY LIES

GRAPHIC: German Troops Marching
GRAPHIC: Hitler In Car In Parade
GRAPHIC: German Troops Marching
CHYRON: LIES FUEL FEAR

GRAPHIC: German Tanks
CHYRON: FEAR FUELS AGGRESSION

GRAPHIC: German Artillery Firing
GRAPHIC: German Planes Dropping Bombs
GRAPHIC: German Tanks Firing
CHYRON: INVASION

GRAPHIC: German Tanks Rolling Down Street
CHYRON: OCCUPATION

GRAPHIC: Hitler With Hand Raised
BACKGROUND: Sig Heil! Sig Heil!
CHYRON: WHAT WERE WAR CRIMES IN 1945

GRAPHIC: President Bush With Hand Raised At Inauguration
BACKGROUND: Sig Heil! Sig Heil!
CHYRON: IS FOREIGN POLICY IN 2003

CHYRON: SPONSORED BY MOVEON.ORG

**

THE 30-SECOND VIDEO IS THE SECOND AD COMPARING BUSH TO HITLER TO BE STREAMED ON MOVEON.ORG. THE CLIP IS PART OF A CONTEST TO FIND THE BEST BUSH-BASHING AD.

A PANEL OF JUDGES, INCLUDING ACTOR-DIRECTOR MICHAEL MOORE, AND DEM CAMPAIGN STRATEGISTS DONNA BRAZILE AND JAMES CARVILLE, WILL SELECT THE WINNER.

[EDITOR'S NOTE: Jack Rosen, president of the American Jewish Congress, says that in the competition, said in an editorial in Monday's WALL STREET JOURNAL: "MoveOn.org informed potential ad makers that 'we're not going to post anything that would be inappropriate for television.' Two of the ads posted on the group's Web site compared Adolf Hitler to George W. Bush. One ad morphed an image of Hitler into President Bush and says that, '1945's war crimes' are '2003's foreign policy.'" Rosen says MoveOn.org is "using the memory of that genocide as a political prop. Their comparison diminishes the reality of what happened, and their actions cheapen the memory of a horrific crime. It also does a terrible disservice to this country at a perilous time, when we need to examine the dangers we face with clarity and purpose." Leadership is "about confronting threats to freedom everywhere. President Bush has shown that leadership in Iraq, and our troops have liberated a people who were oppressed by another murderous dictator. MoveOn.org compares this liberation to the Holocaust. It deploys a picture of Hitler to vilify President Bush. Comparing the commander-in-chief of a democratic nation to the murderous tyrant Hitler is not only historically specious, it is morally outrageous. Comparing an American president, any American president, to Hitler is an outrage. The MoveOn.org ad was inexcusable. Political figures such as Al Gore, who have associated themselves with MoveOn.org, have a special responsibility to condemn these ads; donors to the group such as George Soros have the same responsibility. They owe it not just to the memory of the millions who died in the Holocaust. They owe it also as a simple matter of decency."[/Q]


It is disappointing that this has turned into us against THEM. I feel that for the most part I have entered this forum with an open mind. I have called conservatives wrong when I have felt they were wrong and I have attacked the White House on the issue of Iraq before the war. I think Sting can vouch for our differences of opinions pre-War.

TO say that MOVE-ON is not affiliated with the Democratic Party is almost comical. Howard Dean has links on his own WEBISTIE linking to MOVEON to make a contribution to thank AL GOre for his endorsement. You may not be able to give more than your allotted amount to Howard Dean, but you can give plenty to MOVEON. So to say they are NOT affiliated is a total FARCE.

It totally saddens me, that on this one issue, people cannot come together. Instead more of the same.
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Old 01-05-2004, 11:42 AM   #36
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Originally posted by Dreadsox


Actually, you have no idea how deeply this "dirt" offends me to the core of my inner being.

Making light of it in here is my why of dealing with it.

Inside I am seriously, very pissed off and I fail to understand how it could be charaterized as a little bit of "dirt".

They would have you believe that it was removed for being unacceptable to them, however it was left upthroughout the contest and removed with the rest of the contestants when the deadline for the first round came. They did not remove it in good faith.

Finally, this groups main financiall backer in December made similar statements when he made the largest contibution in the organizations history about the President. The group accepted the money and has not issued a statement saying anything to the contrary leading me to belive that they find the comparison with Hitler acceptable.

So yes, for many reasons, on many levels, I find this "dirt" to be foul and disgusting.
It got removed because someone was offended by it, and rightly so. They raised the concern and the website felt preasure to remove it. This is how things happen, we've seen it over and over. I haven't seen anyone state that they removed it because they found it unacceptable. ALL ENTRIES WERE POSTED.

I find it very interesting how a small website with one paticular individual's idea get posted, and people want to attack the website. They state this is not the view of the website and they do not financially back this paticular idea or person. Yet people want it removed immediately and want the integrity of the website questioned. This contest was nothing but an open forum just like this.

Yet these same people wanted to keep a state backed religious monument that may have offended some in a courthouse.

Now I'm not comparing the monument with the idea that Bush is Hitler. I'm trying to make the point that one is a website which anyone can choose not to visit and has no affiliation to any party. One was a State Court Building which represents the state and people don't have the choice whether they can visit or not. People had no problem when it was backed by the state and they agreed with it, but when they don't, they don't care where it came from they want it removed and want to attack the left.

It's absolutely ridiculous. Was the comparison of Bush to Hitler acceptable? No, but that's where this debate should have ended. The individual that made the ad was wrong, but that's about it.
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Old 01-05-2004, 11:52 AM   #37
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though I agree that it is a tasteless sort of humour
it is probably meant as humour (even though it doesn't make me laugh)

I don't think this is meant as a malicious attempt to portray Bush as a modern day Hitler
if only because if you would be stupid enough to do that you should still have enough common sense to acknowledge that you're gonna result in the opposite if you want people not to support Bush

then again I'm from a country where a favourite email jokes is a pic of our queen photoshopped so that she looks like a hooker in the red light district with cloggs on and a bunch of tulips in her hands
not exactly the same as being compared to Hitler, but it could just as well not been seen as humour
so I might be wrong
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Old 01-05-2004, 12:19 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
[Q]

It is disappointing that this has turned into us against THEM. I feel that for the most part I have entered this forum with an open mind. I have called conservatives wrong when I have felt they were wrong and I have attacked the White House on the issue of Iraq before the war. I think Sting can vouch for our differences of opinions pre-War.

TO say that MOVE-ON is not affiliated with the Democratic Party is almost comical. Howard Dean has links on his own WEBISTIE linking to MOVEON to make a contribution to thank AL GOre for his endorsement. You may not be able to give more than your allotted amount to Howard Dean, but you can give plenty to MOVEON. So to say they are NOT affiliated is a total FARCE.

It totally saddens me, that on this one issue, people cannot come together. Instead more of the same.
Did you see the light again ?
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Old 01-05-2004, 12:53 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


To quote an esteemed member of this forum: Oh, boo hoo.
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Old 01-05-2004, 01:21 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


It totally saddens me, that on this one issue, people cannot come together. Instead more of the same.
I'm not going to go into who I thought turned this into an us against them debate. But no one here is for the comparison. Everyone seems to be in agreement about that. The debate rises when one starts to bring the left into it. The debate also rises about if this is something the website is responsible for. I think you are taking this too personally. We all agree about the comparison, just not the debate surrounding it.
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Old 01-05-2004, 05:04 PM   #41
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Just to clarify.....in other articles.....and I am not at liberty to spend time right now posting links...apparently they did not remove the Hitler Ads because they were offensive. They removed them along with the others because the entry period was up.

To clarify, my al Gore/Move on Comments...The Dean site provides links to Gores Move/On Speeches wich provide links to donate money to Move/On. This again, means nothing other than Dean has been endorsed by Gore, who is a spokesman for MOVE/on making them inseperable. Does this mean they have nothing to do with Democrats? Think again.

As to my taking it personaly....It is....

Their own contest rules said they would not put things on the web page that would not be able to be aired on TV. IF you think this would have been aired on TV then...I must be misunderstanding the rules.

Anyway....peace
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Old 01-05-2004, 05:16 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

Their own contest rules said they would not put things on the web page that would not be able to be aired on TV. IF you think this would have been aired on TV then...I must be misunderstanding the rules.

Anyway....peace
I believe this has to do do more with FCC rules (language, nudity, etc.) and not content.
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Old 01-05-2004, 05:31 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
To quote an esteemed member of this forum: Oh, boo hoo.
Oh why even waste my time....

Melon
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Old 01-06-2004, 09:23 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
The fact that Saddam failed to comply with 17 UN resolutions passed under Chapter VII rules of the UN was not a lie nor was Saddam's violation of the 1991 Gulf War Ceacefire agreement. The Agreement and resolutions authorized member states to "use all means necessary" if Saddam failed to VERIFIABLY DISARM of all WMD!
Bush also violated the wish's of the UN when the first bomb was dropped though.
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Old 01-06-2004, 09:42 AM   #45
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I am still looking for what is debateable about this...
No matter how much you hate Bush, how can he be seen as Hitler?
Anyway, I guess that doesn't matter in here when there is a party on the other side to start attacking. The only thing that changes in FYM is which party is getting the shit put on it.
Guess this is just the wrong party's thread.

Damn my bucket has a hole in it.
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