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Old 09-17-2004, 06:45 PM   #31
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by dazzledbylight
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AAAaaaahhhh....yes....

ANd how about those Thugs from Tom Delay's and other neo-cons congressional offices who were paid to go down to Florida 2000, pretend they were outraged 'Locals', ran through the buiding/offices where the official revoting count was taking place.....banging on windows, shouting,getting intothe room and I believe some assaulting or knocked down one [at least} of the counters or observers

what your 'excuse' for that Undemocratic, Fascist-like behavoir, Huh?

they shut down the recount, those pigs!
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Old 09-17-2004, 07:54 PM   #32
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She seems to be a woman with different political leanings who had the severe misfortune to loose her son, I do not think that an act like this would be the way her son would want to be remembered.
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Old 09-17-2004, 09:29 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by AcrobatMan


Why did she allow her son to be in military/army in the 1st place ?
Clearly it wasn't your son (or any of your loved ones) who died in a war based on a lie.

Might want to look up the word empathy in the dictionary.
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Old 09-18-2004, 01:28 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


Clearly it wasn't your son (or any of your loved ones) who died in a war based on a lie.

Might want to look up the word empathy in the dictionary.
Speaking of dictionary's, a lie is when one knowingly says samething that is false. No one has lied and the continued use of this word in regards to the conflict is absurd.
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Old 09-18-2004, 01:28 PM   #35
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I know because they did find all those WMD's right? Yep, nothing but the truth.
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Old 09-18-2004, 02:00 PM   #36
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
I know because they did find all those WMD's right? Yep, nothing but the truth.
Its an issue of Saddam accounting for WMD's not other countries finding them. Saddam invaded Kuwait and used WMD more times than any other leader in history. The UN Gulf War Ceacefire agreement states that it is Saddam's responsiblity to VERIFIABLY DISARM of all WMD. The international community did not invade and attack four different countries and did not use the WMD, Saddam did. Saddam is the violator, and the only relevant factor in all of this is his compliance or non-compliance with his obligations from the Gulf War Ceacefire which were put in place and designed to protect the region and the world from any more adventures by Saddam.
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Old 09-18-2004, 02:33 PM   #37
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still the UN didn't agree with the war against Iraq

I'd guess they have another assessment of the danger Saddam posed at that point in time
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Old 09-18-2004, 02:41 PM   #38
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Originally posted by Salome
still the UN didn't agree with the war against Iraq

I'd guess they have another assessment of the danger Saddam posed at that point in time
The UN voted for the war at the time, so that is incorrect.
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Old 09-18-2004, 03:03 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2


The UN voted for the war at the time, so that is incorrect.

Quote:
Iraq war illegal, says Annan

The United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan has told the BBC the US-led invasion of Iraq was an illegal act that contravened the UN charter.

He said the decision to take action in Iraq should have been made by the Security Council, not unilaterally.

The UK government responded by saying the attorney-general made the "legal basis... clear at the time".

Mr Annan also warned security in Iraq must considerably improve if credible elections are to be held in January.

The UN chief said in an interview with the BBC World Service that "painful lessons" had been learnt since the war in Iraq.

"Lessons for the US, the UN and other member states. I think in the end everybody's concluded it's best to work together with our allies and through the UN," he said.

'Valid'

"I hope we do not see another Iraq-type operation for a long time - without UN approval and much broader support from the international community," he added.

He said he believed there should have been a second UN resolution following Iraq's failure to comply over weapons inspections.

And it should have been up to the Security Council to approve or determine the consequences, he added.

When pressed on whether he viewed the invasion of Iraq as illegal, he said: "Yes, if you wish. I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN charter from our point of view, from the charter point of view, it was illegal."

You can not have credible elections if the security conditions continue as they are now
Kofi Annan


Mr Annan's comments provoked angry suggestions from a former Bush administration aide that they were timed to influence the US November election.

"I think it is outrageous for the Secretary-General, who ultimately works for the member states, to try and supplant his judgement for the judgement of the member states," Randy Scheunemann, a former advisor to US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told the BBC.

"To do this 51 days before an American election reeks of political interference."

A UK foreign office spokeswoman said: "The Attorney-General made the government's position on the legal basis for the use of military force in Iraq clear at the time".

Australian Prime Minister John Howard also rejected Mr Annan's remarks, saying the legal advice he was given was "entirely valid".

The BBC's Susannah Price at UN headquarters in New York says Mr Annan has made similar comments before.

He has said from the beginning the invasion did not conform with the UN charter - phrasing that was seen as a diplomatic way of saying the war was illegal.

Our correspondent says Mr Annan's relationship with the US might be made a little uncomfortable for a while following his comments, but both sides are likely to want to play it down.

US President George W Bush is due to speak at the UN General Assembly next week.



Mr Annan also said in the interview the UN would give advice and assistance in the run-up to the elections, but it was up to the Iraqi interim government to decide whether such a vote should go ahead.

He warned there could not be "credible elections if the security conditions continue as they are now".

The UK foreign office spokeswoman said there was a full commitment to hold elections in January.

Election and political party laws had already been passed and an independent electoral commission established.

"The task is huge and the deadline tight, but the Iraqi people clearly want elections," she said.

On Wednesday, the head of the British army General Sir Mike Jackson said national elections in Iraq were still on track.

On Monday, Iraq's interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi said elections must go ahead as planned although he conceded the violence might stop some Iraqis voting.

However, a day later a car bomb close to an Iraqi police station in central Baghdad killed 47 people and gunmen opened fire on a police minibus in Baquba, killing 12.

Story from BBC NEWS:
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Old 09-18-2004, 04:12 PM   #40
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Again this is the same UN that views the actions in Dafur, acceptable. The same organization that stands by during genocides and will give itself a slap on the wrist afterwards, the same organization that enabled Saddam to maintain his iron grip on power through bribery, the same organization that views Israelis as racists who are deserving of death.

I think that the UN should be dissolved totally and replaced with an organization that stands for pluralism, liberty and democracy and will strive to spread those ideals around the globe. It is not The Federation it is an amalgamation of Gangsters.
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Old 09-18-2004, 05:29 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep



Kofi Annan is entitled to his opinion, but Kofi Annan does not determine if something is or is not illegal. Kofi Annan does not have a vote on the security council.

If the invasion was illegal, the UN would never have approved the occupation.

If you want an example of how the UN reacts to an invasion that is illegal, I refer you to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990! Did the UN pass a resolution approving Iraq's occupation of Kuwait?
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Old 09-18-2004, 07:34 PM   #42
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Can we please get this thread back on track? We don't need the 1,000,000th discussion on UN resolutions and whether or not the Iraq war was illegal.

I'm still waiting, incidentally, for someone to at least admit that even if they disagree with this poor woman, it has got to be hell to lose a son. Don't tell me you're positive you wouldn't do the same thing if you had the opportunity.
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Old 09-19-2004, 01:51 PM   #43
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by dazzledbylight
Quote:
Originally posted by dazzledbylight



AAAaaaahhhh....yes....

ANd how about those Thugs from Tom Delay's and other neo-cons congressional offices who were paid to go down to Florida 2000, pretend they were outraged 'Locals', ran through the buiding/offices where the official revoting count was taking place.....banging on windows, shouting,getting intothe room and I believe some assaulting or knocked down one [at least} of the counters or observers

what your 'excuse' for that Undemocratic, Fascist-like behavoir, Huh?

they shut down the recount, those pigs!
different situation, but i don't defend that, either. and can we get off the recount thing already? every single recount done by Florida came up with Bush as the winner... GET OVER IT. the election was legal under the rules in place. if you have a problem with the rules in place, [i]do something about it
. constantly bitching about it 4 years after the fact isn't going to solve anything.

we live in a nation where freedom of speech is supposedly celebrated... unless of course you disagree with what the person is saying. protesters claim that interrupting a person who's giving a speach is simply an expression of their first ammendment rights, and by being taken out of the room by police is a violation of those same rights. well shit... what about the person who's giving the speech? doesn't that person also have the right to free speech? doesn't that person have the right to say what they want to say? that is the great thing about america. a person can state whatever opinion they'd like... and you can either agree with it, or disagree with it. so while interrupting someone's speach may be a practice of your own first ammendment rights, it is at the same time violating someone else's. let the person friggin talk, and then voice your protest.
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Old 09-19-2004, 02:12 PM   #44
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Originally posted by paxetaurora
Can we please get this thread back on track? We don't need the 1,000,000th discussion on UN resolutions and whether or not the Iraq war was illegal.

I'm still waiting, incidentally, for someone to at least admit that even if they disagree with this poor woman, it has got to be hell to lose a son. Don't tell me you're positive you wouldn't do the same thing if you had the opportunity.

Do you think the above women's pain would be any different if she had lost her son in a car accident in or in some other way?
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Old 09-19-2004, 03:33 PM   #45
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Yes. It would've not been Bush's fault.
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