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Old 06-01-2006, 08:48 PM   #16
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ok, you live in Melbourne, A_W. Go into a Greek pizza shop tonight and say "Give me pizza you greasy fucking wog" It's only a racial slur, but lets see if it incites violence.
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Old 06-01-2006, 08:49 PM   #17
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PS:

http://www.aic.gov.au/stats/crime/homicide.html

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Old 06-01-2006, 08:51 PM   #18
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
ok, you live in Melbourne, A_W. Go into a Greek pizza shop tonight and say "Give me pizza you greasy fucking wog" It's only a racial slur, but lets see if it incites violence.
Yeah against the person stupid enough to go in and offend,.

I am not advocating racial slurs and abuse, but I am saying that the last thing we need is the government interening and procecuting it. We have a case in Melbourne where two evangelicals are being procecuted for offending Islamic belief, why the fuck is the state intervening and procecuting on behalf of a bunch of believers?
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Old 06-01-2006, 09:04 PM   #19
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I know you're not advocating it, but semantics can really choke an issue like this. If you want a line drawn between what is just a racial slur and what is an incitement to crime, then understanding is needed on what incitement is. And that is the impossible part. You cant make a law which will suit all circumstances so the government has to cast the net wide, possibly too wide - who knows, to ensure it is all met.

What did the evangelicals do which offended the islamics?
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Old 06-01-2006, 09:11 PM   #20
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They said that Islam was revealed by Djinn (devils) and that it was a false faith, this was in the context of a meeting for Christians to learn about Islam and how to talk to Muslims about Christianity. And that offended a Muslim in the audience which led to the charges and subsequent court cases. Now I happen to think that both of these religions are full of shit so if I say so and offend the sensibilities of some believers then whats stopping that same law be used against me? The case didn't involve incitement it involved "religious vilification" or bagging out ideas, something that in a free society should be encouraged, even if those doing it hold equally absurd beliefs.

The incitement by offending somebody else is not really a punishable thing (the reaction to that incitement would be judged in consideration of the behaviour beforehand). But threatening violence or calling for violence (as in harm) against another individual or group is and as such it should be punishable.

Ethnic slurs, anti-religious diatribes and plain offending peoples sensibilities do not harm people or violate their rights and liberties, inciting violence (which is harm and does violate rights) should be punishable. They are different and they can be distinguished.
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Old 06-01-2006, 09:58 PM   #21
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


If you don't intend to make racist comments, at least think before you speak. I've known enough people in my life (thankfully not that many) who refer to African Americans as "monkeys, gorillas" et al to know that most people don't use terms like that for no reason. Automatically racist to call him King Kong? Well, perhaps not. But perhaps it does indicate a certain conduct and attitude that exists in private, or a subconscious thinking that "slips out". I had a grandfather who used words like that and worse, maybe that made me extremely sensitive to that. He was a racist without a doubt.

Like it or not, I think we all need to be sensitive to what words we use to describe people. I would disagree that words are always utterly meaningless without context.
But even in your post, context is considered. You're arguing that the comment is likely racially motivated because to you there exists a cruel, racist connection between apes and African-Americans. Until this thread, I've honestly never heard of anyone refering to African-Americans as gorillas, monkeys, apes, whatever. I've never heard that before. Many, many other offensive terms and analogies, yes, but I've until now never heard of a demeaning racial connection between apes and black people. I'm sure it exists and yes, it sounds very offensive and a racially motivated insult, but like LJT said, when I think of King Kong, I don't think of his "blackness", I think of strength and power, and not in a negative sense either.

I agree it's always important to think before speaking, especially for someone like a mayor who will be scrutinized for everything, but like other things that have been posted in FYM before, when compared to some of the things I've said to my friends, I'd sure come off as a cruel, heartless bitch if my comments were denied the context in which they were spoken.
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Old 06-02-2006, 09:02 AM   #22
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Has anyone heard about Tony Snow using the term "tar baby" ?

http://www.thedesertsun.com/apps/pbc...605230319/1004

"Pressed by a reporter to confirm the existence of a secret government program that reportedly collects the domestic phone call records of millions of Americans, Snow said: "I don't want to hug the tar baby of trying to comment on the program - the alleged program - the existence of which I can neither confirm nor deny."

It's obvious to me that Snow had no racial reference in mind when he uttered those words. Like others who use the term "tar baby" in describing a sticky situation, Snow was probably unmindful of its more insidious usage. To many blacks, "tar baby" is a racial slur. It's a derogatory term used to describe blacks with really dark skin.

When it comes to pejoratives, "tar baby" ranks right up there with the words "coon," "spook" and "Sambo" as offensive language. Snow, who succeeded Scott McClellan as White House press secretary, should have known better than to use the words "tar baby" in any way.

That he didn't suggests that he may not be the adept spokesman that Bush so desperately needs.

I think Snow's verbal faux pas was the result of ignorance, not bad intentions. If he didn't know this before, he should understand it now: When he speaks, his audience is much larger than the journalists gathered before him, or even the conservative wing of American politics from which he hails.

When Snow speaks, he talks to the entire nation. And like it or not, he needs to know that many of us are listening for the "embedded" messages that underlie his public pronouncements. Like the constant trolling for bad acts by conspiracy theorists, the hunt for embedded messages goes on nonstop largely because politicians and their handlers often speak so cryptically.

Snow has been touted as a press secretary who will be more forthright in his pronouncements. If so, he ought to begin by apologizing for his innocent use of the "tar baby" term, which many blacks believe harbors an ugly embedded message."
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Old 06-02-2006, 09:09 AM   #23
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Absurd.
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Old 06-02-2006, 09:36 AM   #24
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See, that one's different b/c 1) he's the press secretary and should definitely know better and 2) he's not talking about someone with whom he has a personal relationship with.
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Old 06-02-2006, 11:04 AM   #25
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Based on the limited quote, Snow is not talking about anyone in particular.

Perhaps there is a different meaning intended.

Should Snow be blamed if someone else uses the term (even if just in their own mind) in a negative way?
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