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Old 05-03-2004, 12:15 PM   #1
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More Questions For Kerry

Kerry 'Unfit to be Commander-in-Chief', Say Former Military Colleagues

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"In the military, loyalty between commanders and the troops serving them is a two-way street. We have here a guy (Kerry) that with all of us in the field [in Vietnam] -- actually fighting the North Vietnamese -- came home and then falsely accused all of us of war crimes at a time when the people in uniform couldn't even respond," O'Neill said.

"And he did that knowing that was a lie," he added.
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Old 05-03-2004, 07:37 PM   #2
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Why can't we let this rest. Why the hell isn't the right asking these same questions of the sitting president what makes him fit to be the Commander in Cheif? We're unsure of his own service, he's an addict, and he couldn't even run a baseball team, yet he's fit to send our children out to war?

This issue is becoming ridiculous.
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Old 05-03-2004, 08:19 PM   #3
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I personally don't give a damn what *either* candidate was doing 30+ years ago. That's a long time to mature and learn about life. This is ridiculous.
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Old 05-03-2004, 08:30 PM   #4
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Making military service a contentious point in this election is truly absurd.

Kerry may have felt the soldiers were war criminals. Certainly a good number were and anyone who thinks otherwise is naive. If they are bumfucking Iraqis with broomsticks, God knows what went on in Vietnamese villages. I am 100% sure there are horrifying stories to be told, whether they are a minority or not.

Nothing in life is 100% positive or 100% negative. Soldiers can be heros and they can be murderous rapist cowards. I learned that personally at a very young age and I will not forget it for a moment before I die.
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Old 05-03-2004, 08:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Kerry may have felt the soldiers were war criminals. Certainly a good number were and anyone who thinks otherwise is naive. If they are bumfucking Iraqis with broomsticks, God knows what went on in Vietnamese villages. I am 100% sure there are horrifying stories to be told, whether they are a minority or not.


Yup...little has changed.

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Old 05-03-2004, 10:20 PM   #6
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What I find sick is when people take the actions of a few individuals and suggest that all, most, or a significant number of soldiers perform these activities.

The overwhelming majority of Vietnam veterans performed honerably only to be spit on by liberals and others when they returned to this country. The only people who are naive are those that claim others have committed atrocities and have no evidence of it, or take the actions of a few bad apples and extrapolate it into something which it is not.
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Old 05-04-2004, 01:37 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
What I find sick is when people take the actions of a few individuals and suggest that all, most, or a significant number of soldiers perform these activities.

The overwhelming majority of Vietnam veterans performed honerably only to be spit on by liberals and others when they returned to this country. The only people who are naive are those that claim others have committed atrocities and have no evidence of it, or take the actions of a few bad apples and extrapolate it into something which it is not.
Not to split hairs, but ironically there is no evidence that Vietnam veterans were "spit on by liberals and others when they returned to this country."

Quote:
The Myth of the Spat-Upon Veteran
By Gabrielle Bernard, Winsted



Chad Barlow, in his impassioned support of war [Some War Is Necessary, February 14], repeats the myth that peace activists "SPAT ON our soldiers returning from Vietnam." Its a great story, but like many right-wing myths (e.g., the story of feminists burning bras), it is simply not true.

Jerry Lembcke, an associate professor of sociology at Holy Cross College, did an exhaustive search in the process of writing his 1998 book, The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory and the Legacy of Vietnam. He found not a single case of a returning Vietnam veteran spat upon by antiwar activists. The relation between Vietnam veterans and the peace movement was generally good, since the antiwar people saw the mostly working class vets as just as much victims of the war machine as the Vietnamese peasants. We should remember that in that war, as many as 550,000 GIs went AWOL or deserted. A Harris Poll in 1971 showed that only 1% of the veterans encountered hostile reactions when they came home, and they did not think the antiwar movement was hostile to them.

There are practically no reports of spitting during the war itself (1965-75). The first reported instance occurs during an International Day of Protest featuring "Veterans for Peace in Vietnam." Here it is the war supporters who are spitting on the pro-peace veterans. In 1965, World War II veterans who were taking part in an antiwar demonstration were reviled as "cowards" and "traitors."

For the rest of the article click here:
http://www.thevoicenews.com/News/200...re_Barlow.html
More here:
http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/3600

And very topical points made here:
http://www.theithacajournal.com/news...on/253194.html
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Old 05-04-2004, 01:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
I personally don't give a damn what *either* candidate was doing 30+ years ago. That's a long time to mature and learn about life. This is ridiculous.
.

Angela
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Old 05-04-2004, 04:04 AM   #9
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Hello,

Here's a part from an article that was first posten in another thread here in FYM "John Kerry's words in 1971 about Vietnam attacked by White House worker" (http://forum.interference.com/t91022.html).
It contains the observation that when Kerry was judged 30+ years ago, there weren't any politics into play. As such, his reviews were positive. Now, with the political bagage everyone suddenly starts questioning him. Why?

From the NY Times (and written by Wesley Clark):

Quote:
When John Kerry released his military records to the public last week, Americans learned a lot about Mr. Kerry's exceptional service in Vietnam. They also learned a lot about the Republican attack machine.

The evaluations were uniformly glowing. One commander wrote that Mr. Kerry ranked among "the top few" in three categories: initiative, cooperation and personal behavior. Another commander wrote, "In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action, Lt. j.g. Kerry was unsurpassed." The citation for Mr. Kerry's Bronze Star praises his "calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire."

In the United States military, there's no ideology there are no labels, Republican or Democrat when superiors evaluate a man or woman's service to country. Mr. Kerry's commander for a brief time, Grant Hibbard, now a Republican, gave Mr. Kerry top marks 36 years ago.
OK, this article was originally about his military records, but I think it's also relevant in this case.

C ya!

Marty
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Old 05-04-2004, 04:54 AM   #10
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I think Kerry probably is incapable of being both a good Commander in Chief and a good president

funny thing is I think the same about Bush


and since there has been plenty of "evidence" on both being absolutely horrid I suggest to put back the presidential elections until 2006 and look for a minimum of 2 candiates who can at least be labelled as mediocre

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Old 05-04-2004, 09:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by ThatGuy


Not to split hairs, but ironically there is no evidence that Vietnam veterans were "spit on by liberals and others when they returned to this country."



More here:
http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/3600

And very topical points made here:
http://www.theithacajournal.com/news...on/253194.html
Try telling that to my father and his friends who served in Vietnam!

Sorry, but your claim that these things did not happen to other veterans is simply false.




Gabrielle Bernard and Jerry Lembcke seem to be interested in creating a myth. The fact that such bullshit exist is not surprising though, people claim they can prove that Hitler did not slaughter the Jews in Europe.
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Old 05-04-2004, 09:40 PM   #12
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"liberals and others"

WTF does this mean? Your hatred of "liberals" is transparent but honestly take a look at history and face the fact that it wan't just liberals that were pissed off at the shit that happened in Vietnam.

But you're doing the same exact thing that you are blaming liberals for. You're taking the actions of small minority and suggesting that all liberals are this discraceful. Hypocracy at it's best.
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Old 05-04-2004, 10:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
"liberals and others"

WTF does this mean? Your hatred of "liberals" is transparent but honestly take a look at history and face the fact that it wan't just liberals that were pissed off at the shit that happened in Vietnam.

But you're doing the same exact thing that you are blaming liberals for. You're taking the actions of small minority and suggesting that all liberals are this discraceful. Hypocracy at it's best.
Why even bother asking me what I meant when you proceed yourself to define what I said?
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Old 05-05-2004, 02:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Why can't we let this rest. Why the hell isn't the right asking these same questions of the sitting president what makes him fit to be the Commander in Cheif?
The Right dont need to, because the Left do enough of it already.
Dont any of you guys see?

Hypocracy most likely, irony, almost certainly.

If this thread doesn't develop a purpose soon, I'll close it out of sheer boredom.
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Old 05-10-2004, 04:26 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome

I suggest to put back the presidential elections until 2006 and look for a minimum of 2 candiates who can at least be labelled as mediocre

This is truly stupid. Would you say that if you lived in the US? Sure, what's two years between friends? Just move the election years around when the going gets tough?

Or is it that we can't afford to stick by the rules in these godawful times?

Maybe I've just had a sense of humour bypass.
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