Mordechai Vanunu freed from prison after 18 years – hero or traitor? - U2 Feedback

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Old 04-21-2004, 06:36 AM   #1
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Mordechai Vanunu freed from prison after 18 years – hero or traitor?

In 1986, after giving information to the British newspaper 'Sunday Times' about the nuclear secrets of Israel (he worked as a technician at Israel's nuclear power plant and was fired at a certain point – prior to giving the information), Vanunu was kidnapped by the Israeli 'Mosad' and sentenced after a trial to 18 years in prison.
Israel has never admitted to have nuclear missiles heads, and says that the nuclear power plant is for research only.

Vanunu says it was an act of conscience, but some reports suggest the 'Sunday Times' offered him about 100,000 pounds.

All this in short – there are much more bits of information claiming one side or the other.

So what do you think?

--------------------

I for myself think that the ambiguity policy Israel has should stop. I do have the right to if there are nuclear weapons in my country (and it’s pretty obvious that it does). As for Vanunu - I'm not so sure of his motives. I change my mind about him almost every day.
He indeed was always known for holding extreme left-wing opinions. But it is said that he had much hatred towards Israel, towards the Jewish religion. He converted to Christianity (prior to being in prison) and was quoted saying that Islam and the Jewish religion war “retarded”. Other quotes related to him says he thinks that the state of Israel has no right to exist and that only a Palestinian state should exist on this land. He himself says the last quote was taken out of context.
So maybe it was because of the ideology, maybe because of the hatred or maybe because of the money. Probably the government has its own interest in spreading information.

And of course, there are the conspiracy theories: Anyone who is interviewed for a job at the nuclear power plant undergoes the most thorough security research you could ever imagine. You would have expected that a person with his opinions (most state security-related places won't hire extremists, right or left) might encounter problems getting the job. But he was hired, managed to take photographs of the place(about 60 were transferred to the Sunday Times) and gather information that goes fare beyond his area of work. All of this in a place with high security measures. It is claimed by some that Vanunu was used – he was intentionally hired and maybe encouraged to give information, all of this to create deterrence in the eyes of the Arab world without giving out the ambiguity policy or any exact information.
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Old 04-21-2004, 07:23 AM   #2
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Behold......the face of a TRAITOR!

Sarit, as a fellow Israeli, I am utterly disgusted that Vaanunu breathes the same air that you and I do. He's a traitor to his country and should not have seen the outside of the prison.

The issue of the existance (or non-existance) of nuclear weapons in Israel is irrelevant. The whole world knows that Israel will NEVER be the first one to use them in conflict, and that our stockpiles (if there are any) are truly a last-resort option.....and even THEN its doubtful that they will ever be used.

Sometimes I shake my head and wonder how people like Vaanunu, Tennebuam, Rosenstein, and others like them, could have come from the same country that gave us heros like Ilan Ramon (who was killed in the "Columbia" explosion), Ron Arad (who has been in captivity somewhere for the past 18 years), Yitzchak Rabin (who gave his life for peace), and many unsung heros who live among us.

If this were Hollywood, I'd say that Vaanunu should look over his shoulder for the rest of his life because there will probably be a car waiting to finish the job.......BUT this is real life and I'm not a violent person and I don't wish him any harm.

So, to answer your question, he's a TRAITOR and does not deserve to be a citizen of the country that he so despises.
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Old 04-21-2004, 08:23 AM   #3
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traitor
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Old 04-21-2004, 09:12 AM   #4
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Both, hero and traitor
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Old 04-21-2004, 09:28 AM   #5
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As with Sarit, I'm alternating between traitor and 'hero' (although I prefer the term whistle blower). He did revealed state secrets to the whole world, but at the same time he warned the world what was going on.

BTW, here's a BBC article about the situation:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3640613.stm

C ya!

Marty

P.S. How would you label the person that would reveal the nuclear capacity and ambitions of North-Korea. Or the (later murdered) sons-in-law (?) of Saddam Hussein that revealed what was going on with the inspections and WMD's in the mid-Nineties?
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Old 04-21-2004, 10:39 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Popmartijn
P.S. How would you label the person that would reveal the nuclear capacity and ambitions of North-Korea. Or the (later murdered) sons-in-law (?) of Saddam Hussein that revealed what was going on with the inspections and WMD's in the mid-Nineties?
Some would argue that unlike Iraq Israel never intends to make use of its nuclear weapon. But the way I see it – regarding those individuals who gave the information, there is not much difference. They all wanted the world to know about the nuclear weapons in their countries - something that they opposed to, a thing which in their minds shouldn’t even exist.

My opinion of Vanunu comes directly from his motives – if they are ideological I don’t see him as a traitor, but then again we can never know for sure what his motives were.
I know that the motive may change but the act itself will remain the same, still it’s hard for me to treat someone who was doing this for ideological reasons (pacifisms perhaps) as a traitor.

Again, I’m separating here my views on Israel’s ambiguity policy and on Vanunu himself.

Klaus – why both hero and traitor?
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Old 04-21-2004, 10:50 AM   #7
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Selling state secrets makes him a traitor.


Interestingly, he converted to Christianity while in prison.
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Old 04-21-2004, 10:54 AM   #8
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Interestingly, he converted to Christianity while in prison.

Actually, he converted to Christianity before being in prison. It was during his stay at Australia that he visited very often a local church, at a certain point he decided to convert.
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Old 04-21-2004, 11:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by sarit



Actually, he converted to Christianity before being in prison. It was during his stay at Australia that he visited very often a local church, at a certain point he decided to convert.
i am not sure if religious converts should be trusted - remember reid, anderson, walker...

what is the guarentee that he wont convert to some other religion ABC and sell other confidential informations to XYZ.

what is the guarentee that he would not want to leave USA and want to settle in South Africa or for that matter any other country

why did he do the job he did if he didnt know how to respect the rules and laws.

i think he is a traitor not only for his country and but also to his original religion - whatever it was -

he has ZERO credibility as far as i am concerned.
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Old 04-21-2004, 11:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Selling state secrets makes him a traitor.


Where is, or is there a line that can be drawn between a traitor and someone acted out of conscience? Is it the money? Has it been proven that he took money?

On a side note any country who has nuclear weapons intends on using them. Be it offense, defense, or leverage they tend to use them. To think otherwise I believe is naive.
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Old 04-21-2004, 12:23 PM   #11
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The Cold War showed us that having them kept the peace. It's been a few years since another country launched a major offensive against Israel.
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Old 04-21-2004, 12:43 PM   #12
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
The Cold War showed us that having them kept the peace. It's been a few years since another country launched a major offensive against Israel.
Yes, probably the most backwards thinking policy I've seen from humanity in my lifetime. I would have thought we would have learned something from the Cold War and everyone disarm, but I think history is becoming useless because no one is learning a damn thing.
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Old 04-21-2004, 01:56 PM   #13
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The US executed the traitors who sold nuclear secrets to the USSR.
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Old 04-21-2004, 02:16 PM   #14
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Don't give Sharon any ideas.
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Old 04-21-2004, 02:30 PM   #15
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If it was a north korean or something like that, he would be a hero to the western world.

I think he is a hero, why should only civilized countries have the right to have secrets ?
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