Mordechai Vanunu freed from prison after 18 years ? hero or traitor?

[sarit]

In 1986, after giving information to the British newspaper 'Sunday Times' about the nuclear secrets of Israel (he worked as a technician at Israel's nuclear power plant and was fired at a certain point ? prior to giving the information), Vanunu was kidnapped by the Israeli 'Mosad' and sentenced after a trial to 18 years in prison.
Israel has never admitted to have nuclear missiles heads, and says that the nuclear power plant is for research only.

Vanunu says it was an act of conscience, but some reports suggest the 'Sunday Times' offered him about 100,000 pounds.

All this in short ? there are much more bits of information claiming one side or the other.

So what do you think?

--------------------

I for myself think that the ambiguity policy Israel has should stop. I do have the right to if there are nuclear weapons in my country (and it?s pretty obvious that it does). As for Vanunu - I'm not so sure of his motives. I change my mind about him almost every day.
He indeed was always known for holding extreme left-wing opinions. But it is said that he had much hatred towards Israel, towards the Jewish religion. He converted to Christianity (prior to being in prison) and was quoted saying that Islam and the Jewish religion war ?retarded?. Other quotes related to him says he thinks that the state of Israel has no right to exist and that only a Palestinian state should exist on this land. He himself says the last quote was taken out of context.
So maybe it was because of the ideology, maybe because of the hatred or maybe because of the money. Probably the government has its own interest in spreading information.

And of course, there are the conspiracy theories: Anyone who is interviewed for a job at the nuclear power plant undergoes the most thorough security research you could ever imagine. You would have expected that a person with his opinions (most state security-related places won't hire extremists, right or left) might encounter problems getting the job. But he was hired, managed to take photographs of the place(about 60 were transferred to the Sunday Times) and gather information that goes fare beyond his area of work. All of this in a place with high security measures. It is claimed by some that Vanunu was used ? he was intentionally hired and maybe encouraged to give information, all of this to create deterrence in the eyes of the Arab world without giving out the ambiguity policy or any exact information.

 

[AchtungBono]

Behold......the face of a TRAITOR!

Sarit, as a fellow Israeli, I am utterly disgusted that Vaanunu breathes the same air that you and I do. He's a traitor to his country and should not have seen the outside of the prison.

The issue of the existance (or non-existance) of nuclear weapons in Israel is irrelevant. The whole world knows that Israel will NEVER be the first one to use them in conflict, and that our stockpiles (if there are any) are truly a last-resort option.....and even THEN its doubtful that they will ever be used.

Sometimes I shake my head and wonder how people like Vaanunu, Tennebuam, Rosenstein, and others like them, could have come from the same country that gave us heros like Ilan Ramon (who was killed in the "Columbia" explosion), Ron Arad (who has been in captivity somewhere for the past 18 years), Yitzchak Rabin (who gave his life for peace), and many unsung heros who live among us.

If this were Hollywood, I'd say that Vaanunu should look over his shoulder for the rest of his life because there will probably be a car waiting to finish the job.......BUT this is real life and I'm not a violent person and I don't wish him any harm.

So, to answer your question, he's a TRAITOR and does not deserve to be a citizen of the country that he so despises.

 

[Dreadsox]

traitor

 

[Klaus]

Both, hero and traitor

 

[Popmartijn]

As with Sarit, I'm alternating between traitor and 'hero' (although I prefer the term whistle blower). He did revealed state secrets to the whole world, but at the same time he warned the world what was going on.

BTW, here's a BBC article about the situation:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3640613.stm

C ya!

Marty

P.S. How would you label the person that would reveal the nuclear capacity and ambitions of North-Korea. Or the (later murdered) sons-in-law (?) of Saddam Hussein that revealed what was going on with the inspections and WMD's in the mid-Nineties?

 

[sarit]

P.S. How would you label the person that would reveal the nuclear capacity and ambitions of North-Korea. Or the (later murdered) sons-in-law (?) of Saddam Hussein that revealed what was going on with the inspections and WMD's in the mid-Nineties?

Some would argue that unlike Iraq Israel never intends to make use of its nuclear weapon. But the way I see it ? regarding those individuals who gave the information, there is not much difference. They all wanted the world to know about the nuclear weapons in their countries - something that they opposed to, a thing which in their minds shouldn?t even exist.

My opinion of Vanunu comes directly from his motives ? if they are ideological I don?t see him as a traitor, but then again we can never know for sure what his motives were.
I know that the motive may change but the act itself will remain the same, still it?s hard for me to treat someone who was doing this for ideological reasons (pacifisms perhaps) as a traitor.

Again, I?m separating here my views on Israel?s ambiguity policy and on Vanunu himself.

Klaus ? why both hero and traitor?

 

[nbcrusader]

Selling state secrets makes him a traitor.


Interestingly, he converted to Christianity while in prison.

 

[sarit]

Interestingly, he converted to Christianity while in prison.

Actually, he converted to Christianity before being in prison. It was during his stay at Australia that he visited very often a local church, at a certain point he decided to convert.

 

[AcrobatMan]

Actually, he converted to Christianity before being in prison. It was during his stay at Australia that he visited very often a local church, at a certain point he decided to convert.

i am not sure if religious converts should be trusted - remember reid, anderson, walker...

what is the guarentee that he wont convert to some other religion ABC and sell other confidential informations to XYZ.

what is the guarentee that he would not want to leave USA and want to settle in South Africa or for that matter any other country

why did he do the job he did if he didnt know how to respect the rules and laws.

i think he is a traitor not only for his country and but also to his original religion - whatever it was -

he has ZERO credibility as far as i am concerned.

 

[BVS]

Selling state secrets makes him a traitor.

Where is, or is there a line that can be drawn between a traitor and someone acted out of conscience? Is it the money? Has it been proven that he took money?

On a side note any country who has nuclear weapons intends on using them. Be it offense, defense, or leverage they tend to use them. To think otherwise I believe is naive.

 

[nbcrusader]

The Cold War showed us that having them kept the peace. It's been a few years since another country launched a major offensive against Israel.

 

[BVS]

The Cold War showed us that having them kept the peace. It's been a few years since another country launched a major offensive against Israel.

Yes, probably the most backwards thinking policy I've seen from humanity in my lifetime. I would have thought we would have learned something from the Cold War and everyone disarm, but I think history is becoming useless because no one is learning a damn thing.

 

[BluberryPoptart]

The US executed the traitors who sold nuclear secrets to the USSR.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Don't give Sharon any ideas.

 

[Rono]

If it was a north korean or something like that, he would be a hero to the western world.

I think he is a hero, why should only civilized countries have the right to have secrets ?

 

[BluberryPoptart]

Even in the days of the cold war, the US and USSR worked to keep nuclear knowledge out of the hands of unstable and third world nations. Some people really aren't trustworthy enough to have that kind of info, it could blow up the world. Sometimes common sense has to rule. This isn't kids sharing candy here.

I'm sure there will be those who joke that the ones who have it aren't trustworthy either. Well the countries who have it now haven't blown up the world yet, have they? But some extremists or terrorist might.

 

[BVS]

Even in the days of the cold war, the US and USSR worked to keep nuclear knowledge out of the hands of unstable and third world nations. Some people really aren't trustworthy enough to have that kind of info, it could blow up the world. Sometimes common sense has to rule. This isn't kids sharing candy here.

I'm sure there will be those who joke that the ones who have it aren't trustworthy either. Well the countries who have it now haven't blown up the world yet, have they? But some extremists or terrorist might.

No one's blown up the world, but take a look at who's done the most damage with this type of technology.

No one should own these type of weapons, it just doesn't make sence. We already have enough spread throughout the world to make humanity exticnt twice over.

And why hold it secretly if you are only using it to "keep peace"?

 

[BluberryPoptart]

No one's blown up the world, but take a look at who's done the most damage with this type of technology.

No one should own these type of weapons, it just doesn't make sence. We already have enough spread throughout the world to make humanity exticnt twice over.

And why hold it secretly if you are only using it to "keep peace"?

It's true no one should own them but that's a fantasy la la la world dream. They do exist and they have to be kept out of the wrong hands. Why hold them secretly? Because there are some people not responsible enough or stable enough to have those weapons. I really, really can't believe anyone could think it's a good thing to let everybody in the world know how to make a nuclear bomb

 

[Popmartijn]

But that wasn't what this Israeli did. He did not sell the secrets, the technology itself. All he did was show to the rest of the world that Israel was having a secret program of WMD. That's all he wanted to show.

C ya!

Marty

 

[BVS]

Because there are some people not responsible enough or stable enough to have those weapons. I really, really can't believe anyone could think it's a good thing to let everybody in the world know how to make a nuclear bomb

What?! I'm not sure what this has to do with this instance...

 

[Klaus]

Popmartijn:
exactly, mr Vanunu said at his first press conference:
"Israel doesn't need nuclear weapons, especially now that all of the Middle East is free from nuclear arms. My message today to all the world is open the Dimona reactor for inspections"

Klaus

ps. Whatever you think of what Mr Vanunu has done, i think he's simply a hero because he survived these conditions in jail.

 

[BluberryPoptart]

What?! I'm not sure what this has to do with this instance...

Guess I misunderstood, it looked like a couple of you thought keeping nuclear technology to yourself was a rude thing

I still think the guy betrayed his country though.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Whatever you think of what Mr Vanunu has done, i think he's simply a hero because he survived these conditions in jail.

He was kidnapped from Italy by the Israeli security forces and imprisoned for eighteen years, a lot of it in solitary confinement. And now the Israeli government are even trying to control what he's allowed to do now he's been released.

 

[BVS]

Guess I misunderstood, it looked like a couple of you thought keeping nuclear technology to yourself was a rude thing

I still think the guy betrayed his country though.

No, I think starting a weapons program and telling the world you're not, is not exactly the move of a country "not intending to use them". And that was my point. If you have them just to maintain leverage and never really intend on using them, then you let people know you at least have them otherwise what's point?

I don't think anyone should put their country before their moral conscience. Not that I'm saying this is the case, but no one has really told me why he's exactly a traitor, no one's told me how he crossed the line or where they think that line is.